[talk-au] local traffic only

[Sebastian Spiess]

Thanks Andrew,
I have updated the street accordingly. See
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/174303541/history

On 11/11/19 7:24 pm, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> In an effort to try to document the outcome of this discussion, I've
> updated https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Local_Traffic_Only though
> if any one still feels this isn't the best way to tag this feature,
> please speak up.
>
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 10:26, Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com
> <mailto:inas66%2Bosm at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     What does "official" mean?  It's official, in that the signs are
>     placed by the local council.  However they are not enforceable,
>     because no law (regulation, etc) gives them a legal meaning.
>
>     There is no definitive list of street signs that are advisory vs
>     enforceable.  But the RMS has a partial list on their website, and
>     the definitive is the Australian Road Rules (as in various state
>     legislation).
>
>     Councils use them to discourage local streets for through use. 
>     They advise drivers that they aren't a main road - and they may
>     have traffic calming, etc on them and be otherwise unsuited in
>     design for through use.  They aren't used at all in many (most?)
>     council areas.
>
>     In some cases, they may also have a reduced speed-limit on the
>     same sign.  That would be enforceable.
>
>     It's pretty low value information to capture in OSM.  But the
>     signs exist, so we can capture them - but a access restriction
>     would be inappropriate.  I've said before I agree with Andrew's
>     proposed tagging for discouraged access.
>
>     Ian.
>
>     On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 06:38, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de
>     <mailto:mapping at consebt.de>> wrote:
>
>         So the sign is put up by the council. Is it not an official sign?
>
>         Could someone elaborate on the legal side mentioned here. E.g.
>         is there catalogue of street signs in the road rules and this
>         one is not among them?
>
>         Are people confusing lax enforcement of the sign with it
>         having no legal meaning?
>
>         On 9 November 2019 11:37:49 am AEDT, Andrew Harvey
>         <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com <mailto:andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>>
>         wrote:
>
>             On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 02:24, Mateusz Konieczny
>             <matkoniecz at tutanota.com <mailto:matkoniecz at tutanota.com>>
>             wrote:
>
>                 Why it would be irrelevant?
>
>
>                 access tag family is for legal access (with some space
>                 for officially discouraged access),
>                 access=destination is for "transit is illegal", not
>                 "local residents dislike transit traffic".
>
>                 OSM is not a place to add a nonexisting ban on transit
>                 traffic
>
>
>             Yeah realised this later, see my other post in this thread
>             at https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2019-November/013188.html,
>             which I suggested motor_vehicle:advisory=destination to
>             tag a suggested or advised but maybe not legally
>             enforceable destination only restriction.
>
>             On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 at 01:55, Mateusz Konieczny
>             <matkoniecz at tutanota.com <mailto:matkoniecz at tutanota.com>>
>             wrote:
>
>                 Is it "local traffic only" as in "resident only" or
>                 "no transit"?
>
>                 Is permission required to enter this area?
>
>                 AFAIK there is no tagging scheme for distinguishing
>                 "only with permission of
>                 homeowner" and "available to all residents of closed
>                 community".
>
>
>             It just means this road is indented to be used if you're
>             traveling to somewhere along this road, but not if you're
>             just driving through as a shortcut.
>
>             It's still public land, not private property. 
>
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