[talk-au] Are we allowed to use PTV datasets (CC 4.0)?

Aaron aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com
Wed Nov 20 05:22:02 UTC 2019


Thank you for the information. I've included the original email below, and
I've attached the waiver.

*Original message:*
From: Aaron Fang Shenhao <aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 1:54 am
Subject: Permission to Incorporate PTV's CC BY Data Into OpenStreetMap
To: <contact at dpc.vic.gov.au>

Dear Department of Premier and Cabinet,

Thank you for making Public Transport Victoria’s open data available under
the Creative Commons CC BY 4.0 license at data.vic.gov.au.

I am a volunteer of OpenStreetMap <https://www.openstreetmap.org/>, a
collaborative open project to create a global geodata set freely usable by
anyone on share-alike and attribution terms under the Open Database License
(ODbL) <http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/>.

We’re very interested in using the data in Public Transport Victoria’s open
data to improve OpenStreetMap. In order to facilitate this, we need to
confirm with you that Public Transport Victoria has no objections.

In particular, there are two issues we would like to clarify.

First, because OpenStreetMap's data comes from thousands of local
volunteers as well as numerous government sources, attribution to all such
sources on an OpenStreetMap-based map or similar visual display is
impossible. Instead, we provide attribution (including original license
information) to major sources like Public Transport Victoria on our
Contributors
page <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#%5Byour%20region%5D>.
OpenStreetMap users are then required to attribute "OpenStreetMap
Contributors" in a collective fashion
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright> when using any OpenStreetMap
data. CC BY's attribution requirements are relatively general, so we just
need you to confirm that you would consider OpenStreetMap's attribution
method to attribute Public Transport Victoria in a "reasonable manner" in
accordance with Section 3(a)(1) of the CC BY 4.0 license.

Second, the ODbL and CC BY 4.0 have slightly different ways of addressing
digital rights management technologies. The ODbL allows data users to apply
technical protection measures to their own works so long as they also
provide an unrestricted version of the underlying database, including their
own additions ("parallel distribution"). In contrast, CC BY 4.0 can be read
to prohibit any application of technical protection measures to databases
that include CC BY material. This is a relatively minor difference in how
the licenses are drafted, but means that in some cases, users who comply
with ODbL might not comply with CC BY 4.0.

In practice, we have found that parallel distribution is an excellent way
of ensuring open access to data while allowing flexibility in use. Thus, we
ask that, to the extent CC BY 4.0 Section 2(a)(5)(B) prohibits any
downstream restrictions even when parallel distribution is available, you
waive this license restriction as to OSM and its users. This waiver would
have no effect on Public Transport Victoria’s original dataset and only
pertains to the restrictions allowed on combinations of that data with OSM
data.

Thank you for your consideration. If Public Transport Victoria is amenable,
can you please check off the boxes in the attached form and return a signed
version to me?

If you have any questions or would like more information about
OpenStreetMap, please do not hesitate to contact me by e-mail.

Regards,

Aaron Fang Shenhao

Local OSM Representative

http://www.openstreetmap.org

http://localosmgroup.tld

On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 4:14 pm, Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Unfortunately it is quite common to not hear back. Which email did you
> send to? It's worth sending a reminder email.
>
>
> On Wed., 20 Nov. 2019, 11:58 am Aaron, <aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just checking up on this. It's been 2 months since I sent the waiver, is
>> it a normal waiting period, or did I address the wrong person or something?
>> :P
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Aaron.
>>
>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 4:39 pm, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi and also welcome,
>>> It would be good if you update the wiki once you've sent the waiver
>>> request off.
>>> This helps tracking what's going on.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Seb
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>> On 14 September 2019 10:01:34 pm AEST, Aaron Fang Shenhao <
>>> aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you both for the helpful info!
>>>>
>>>> I'll get onto sending the waiver letter to PTV. Once it comes back I'll
>>>> make sure to update the wiki and report back.
>>>>
>>>> I've summarised the number of stops and routes in the dataset for
>>>> anyone who is interested.
>>>>
>>>>   Transport Medium   │ No. stops   No. routes
>>>>  ════════════════════╪════════════════════════
>>>>   Metropolitan Train │ 222         99
>>>>   Metropolitan Tram  │ 1673        73
>>>>   Metropolitan Bus   │ 18241       354
>>>>   Regional Train     │ 110         206
>>>>   Regional Bus       │ 6644        356
>>>>   Regional Coach     │ 859         658
>>>>   Night Bus          │ 452         22
>>>>   TeleBus            │ 100         8
>>>>   Interstate         │ 11          11
>>>>   SkyBus             │ 5           2
>>>>
>>>> For completeness, here's the summary from OSM using the tags railway=station, railway=tram_stop and highway=bus_stop inside the area ISO3166-2=AU-VIC.
>>>>
>>>>   Transport Medium │ No. stops   No. routes
>>>>  ══════════════════╪════════════════════════
>>>>   Train            │ 442         38
>>>>   Tram             │ 1570        91
>>>>   Bus              │ 4793        716
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 6:15 PM Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 23:29, Aaron Fang Shenhao <
>>>>> aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is my first time using the mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Welcome!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve noticed that PTV’s (Public Transport Victoria) datasets (
>>>>>> https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/footer/data-and-reporting/datasets/) all
>>>>>> fall under Creative Commons International 4.0, which requires explicit
>>>>>> permission to be used according to OSM’s blog. I’ve looked at the wiki and
>>>>>> can’t find any of these specific datasets in the list approved for use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Graeme pointed to the catalogue on the wiki of waiver status. I missed
>>>>> PTV when doing the initial round, so feel free to add this to the wiki
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Has anyone asked for permission to use these datasets before? I
>>>>>> downloaded the GTFS dataset for a programming project, and it seems
>>>>>> amazing: we could add all the stops and connect all the routes for all
>>>>>> modes of transport in VIC just from this dataset?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't approached PTV about this, and since it's not listed on the
>>>>> wiki, I'd say go ahead and put together the waiver letter and send it off.
>>>>> The metadata records have a contact email you can use. If you do send off a
>>>>> waiver request please update the status and date you sent it to the wiki
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue, this
>>>>> really helps the rest of the community see what's going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> There'd still be a fair bit of manual work involved in an import to
>>>>> avoid duplicates and to integrate with what's already in OSM, but with a
>>>>> solid plan and engaging with this mailing list and local mappers with the
>>>>> plan and execution, an import could be a good thing to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 12:33, Graeme Fitzpatrick <
>>>>> graemefitz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I see there is reference to
>>>>>> https://www2.delwp.vic.gov.au/maps/spatial-data/victorian-spatial-data#Vicmap_Transport-11 being
>>>>>> OK but that doesn't appear to be the same thing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately not, VicMap Transport only has airports, roads and
>>>>> railway lines. The PTV data has bus stops and a few other datasets.
>>>>>
>>>>
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