[talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths

[osm.talk-au at thorsten.engler.id.au]

bicycle=designated implies the presence of one of these signs:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558999688670609448/894078435264196668
/unknown.png

bicycle=no implies the presence of this sign:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/558999688670609448/894078611248807946
/unknown.png

The absence of any explicit sign should be tagged by the absence of an
explicit bicycle tag.

In that case, routers should follow the
"def:highway=footway;access:bicycle"=no
tag on the state boundary relations:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316593
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2316741

Routers that incorrectly assume a bicycle=yes for footways in the absence of
an explicit bicycle tag are faulty and need to be fixed.

-----Original Message-----
From: forster at ozonline.com.au <forster at ozonline.com.au> 
Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2021 13:58
To: Sebastian Azagra <s.azagra at me.com>; Sebastian Azagra via Talk-au
<talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Cycling on Victorian paths

Hi Sebastian
Welcome to talk-au
____________________________________________________________
A NOTE FOR NON-AUSTRALIANS reading this
a UK pavement or a US sidewalk is an Australian footpath
____________________________________________________________


I agree with Graeme Fitzpatrick's opinion that blanket bicycle=no on
*all* footpaths is wrong.

In addition there is Karl Cheng's opinion (Mon Sep 20 talk-au) that "this
whole "Road Rules" regulation only applies to "roads" and "road related
areas".
Only footpaths adjacent to a "road", or any path explicitly designated for
cyclists are considered to be "road related areas". See rules 11-13 of the
Road Rules for details."

Thirdly there is the issue of ground truth
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground
"Don't map your local legislation, if not bound to objects in reality Things
such as local traffic rules should only be mapped when there are objects
which represent these rules on the ground, e.g. a traffic sign, road surface
marking. Other rules that can not be seen in some way should not be mapped,
as they are not universally verifiable." I note that if they changed the
legislation, we would have to find and edit maybe a million ways.

Fourthly (as Graeme Fitzpatrick also notes) you say "Members of the
community have even sought confirmation of permissions from Vic police who
have confirmed to the affirmative that unless a path is specifically signed
to be used by a cyclist, then cyclists are not permitted to use it from a
legal perspective."
You have been asked before but not answered the question, is this verbal or
written advice, if written, can you give a URL?

Thanks
Tony

> Hi there,
>
> I?m starting a new thread in relation to recent discussion regarding  
> access on footpaths which have bicycle=No
>
> In the Melbourne Bikepath cycling community there has been vigorous   
> discussion relating to the strict rules the cyclists must follow and  
>  not ride on footpaths due to Victorian Road Rules. Victorian   
> cyclists know that we are not permitted to ride of footpaths.
> Members of the community have even sought confirmation of   
> permissions from Vic police who have confirmed to the affirmative   
> that unless a path is specifically signed to be used by a cyclist,   
> then cyclists are not permitted to use it from a legal perspective.
>
> In my view, some of the data in OSM is incorrect as a footpath will   
> some times have permission bicycle=yes which is incorrect. The   
> majority of the time allowed access will have bicycle=unspecified   
> (not defined)which I think is fine.
> The issue is that cycling software, apps and gps units used by   
> cyclist takes information from OSM and then creates a route based on  
> the permission assigned to the road/path in OSM.
>
> I?d be keen to hear from other Victorian cyclists in the OSM   
> community on the best way to tag paths so that they do not allow   
> cyclists.
>
>
>
> regards,
> Sebastian





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