[talk-au] Melbourne Intersections with duplicate ways and turn lanes

me at diacritic.xyz me at diacritic.xyz
Tue Sep 14 23:57:17 UTC 2021

Thanks Andrew,

I've reached out to the user on a changeset, and will hopefully have a 
good conversation about it.

In the meantime, I've found about 30-50 intersections with these 
duplicate ways and lanes. Would it be useful to add notes, or fix me 
tags to those intersections? I'm wary about flooding any feedback 
channels with many instances of the same problem, but it could help keep 
track of where work is needed?


On 2021-09-13 00:26, Andrew Harvey wrote:

> Thanks I see what you mean by these changes (much easier to visualise 
> in OSMCha).
> Usually I see this as an older style mapping, before turn lane tagging 
> was more common and sometimes done for routing so that people were 
> warned earlier. But these days it's much better to use turn:lanes 
> tagging and only split the way at the point where you can no longer 
> physically change lanes.
> It's possible to revert changesets, but it's not always 
> straightforward.
> Leaving a changeset comment is the best first step, as they might not 
> be aware of standard practice and other tags like turn:lanes.
> On Mon, 13 Sept 2021 at 08:07, <me at diacritic.xyz> wrote:
> Thanks Andrew, that was my last understanding as well. In particular, 
> modeling right hand turns as separate, curved ways when there is no 
> separate roadway.
> Here are of changesets which introduce the types of issues I mentioned. 
> They mostly seem to be around dual carriageways.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/108100471#map=15/-37.8844/145.2793
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82795947#map=14/-37.9685/145.0608 
> [1]
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/82695023#map=14/-37.9878/145.0739&layers=N
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/109871984#map=15/-38.1460/145.1279&layers=N
> Diacritic
> On 2021-09-13 06:57, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> Do you have a link to a changeset of one you worked on?
> I haven't been able to find an example of where it was an issue, but 
> generally the rule of thumb is only using separate ways when they are 
> physically separated, so sometimes you're splitting into two parallel 
> ways for either direction, but not usually for each lane of the road in 
> a single direction.
> On Mon, 13 Sept 2021 at 01:15, <me at diacritic.xyz> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm relatively new, but I wanted to bring something g to your 
> attention.
> I came across a couple of intersections that seemed overly complicated; 
> they had lots of turn lanes drawn and were very messy. I created an 
> account, learned the standards for intersections and tried my best to 
> fix them. I started at Heidelberg Rd/Chandler Hwy, and then found more 
> on Punt Road/Hoddle St. I changed those as best I could as well. Then I 
> saw more, and more. Once I started looking, it was everywhere; 
> intersections with multiple ways for lanes, two or three turn lanes 
> with broken restrictions. The West Gate has some sections of parallel 
> lanes as ways for a few hundred meters. Whenever I try and route using 
> one of these intersections, there are multiple confusing steps and 
> "forks" that don't exist in reality
> Almost all the edits have been from one user; I've sent them a message 
> on their most recent change set, but I'm daunted by the scale of the 
> fixes required. Does this group have any suggestions on where and how 
> to start?
> thanks _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

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