[talk-au] Country homesteads?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks all!

Yeah, the various wiki comments re size as always are very European & don't
suit Oz conditions.

I think that place=farm + name=* seems to be the way to go, so I'll test
that & see how it works?

One of the factors in OP making them hamlets could have been that that will
render, so will have to see if =farm does as well?

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 18:39, cleary <osm at 97k.com> wrote:

>
> Generally, I would suggest a node at the hub of the farm (usually in the
> vicinity of the main residence)
> place=farm
> name=*
> operator=*
>
> In regard to farm boundaries, I think it has been OSM practice not to map
> lot/property boundaries.
>
> Most farms today don't employ many people and employees frequently live in
> nearby towns etc. so place=farm is appropriate.  In more isolated areas,
> some very large farms may still accommodate workers and sometimes their
> families - in such cases place=isolated_dwelling might be appropriate as I
> think it implies a larger population than a farm. I'd suggest that it has
> many years since Australian farms had enough residents to be considered as
> hamlets. In fact, increasingly farms have no residents. In some cases
> multiple farms are operated from a single homestead but, if each farm is
> separately named, I think each should still be separately mapped. Farms
> with animals such as dairy cattle or poultry etc may need people on site
> overnight but grazing cattle and crops such as cotton/wheat/rice etc may
> not need people in the immediate vicinity - and security cameras and alarms
> are increasingly used so that people can go to off-farm homes at night. The
> "homestead" may become an administrative office plus staff facilities when
> there is no-one resident on the property.
>
> In some cases, where public roads go through farms (usually cattle grids
> and signs at the respective boundaries), I have added  is_in:farm=*  on the
> section of road that is within the particular farm, but the "is_in" tag
> seems now less used than in the past.  Perhaps there is a case for mapping
> lot/property boundaries where the properties are very large farms but I
> will leave that for others to advocate. In South Australia's pastoral
> district, each farm has its own "suburb" boundaries in the official
> government suburb/locality database - but I am not aware of any farm
> boundaries designated in this way in any other state.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022, at 3:27 PM, Bob Cameron wrote:
> > Remote areas and larger farms generally have been troubling me too
> > Graeme. I make no distinction about numbers of people, just a
> > landuse=farm node. (so I copied a very prolific mapper!) Recently I
> > noted that landuse:farm has been deprecated and to use
> > landuse:farmland, but that complains about being a node. There is no
> > easy way to define a farm boundary. I think in terms of the mailbox,
> > driveway and largest concentration of activity being the node centre.
> >
> > And the name is the farm name, not the house name.. maybe!
> >
> > Remote cattle stations can support an extended family (in more than one
> > homestead) and other many onsite (staff) people. Are the working farm
> > staff include in any people sizing calculations? ouch!
> >
> > Personally I don't think it a good idea to tag a farm that creates
> > commercial income with any notion of the number of people. It gets a
> > bit blurry when it is an unusual group like a religious order or non
> > profit retreat, but they already have other tags.
> >
> > Cheers Bob
> >
> > On 22/4/22 14:55, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> >> Also bringing discussion out here from Discord.
> >>
> >> An anonymous user is hitting Notes with quite a few entries yesterday
> to say that remote homesteads are incorrectly tagged as hamlets eg
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/3145380, but looking at this
> particular place
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1829712552#map=17/-21.96106/148.80882,
> I'd say that "hamlet" was probably correct in that there could well be a
> couple of families living there?
> >>
> >> Other suggestions that have been made are place=isolated_dwelling or
> place=farm.
> >>
> >> Bit of a grey area, I guess? Isolated-dwelling says 1-2 families only,
> hamlet says 100-200 people, while place=farm says "a family of farmers".
> Guess it really depends on the particular property involved, which would
> require detailed local knowledge?
> >>
> >> Thoughts?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Graeme
> >>
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