[talk-au] Tagging Gazetted Road Routes (National, State, Regional...)

[Dian Ågesson]

Hey Andrew,

I'm not surprised this is challenging to explain in an email. When I 
tidied up the Roads wiki page it was immediately clear that there are 
multiple layers of complexity here.

My understanding that there are several distinct "highway" concepts in 
Australia.  When you are referring to state routes and national routes, 
are you talking about the old, numberic route numbering system? Or, are 
you talking about highways that have been gazetted as a "state 
controlled highway", such as State (Bell/Springvale) Highway [1]. Does 
it actually make sense to have the "A1" as part of the "National 
Highway" network, given that it is an alphanumeric route?

I don't believe it is possible to assume that every numbered route has a 
specific name, and vice versa (The A1!=Princes Highway!=Imlay Street, 
Eden), but it would be help to update the network tags to be more in 
line with international practice.

Dian

On 2022-08-11 07:45, Andrew Hughes wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
> 
> No I had not seen that and it's really helpful thank you.
> 
> This is quite challenging to explain in an email but I will try...
> 
> Scenario: Given a way, how can I determine if that way is part of a 
> state or national route with a name?
> 
> Scenario in Action:
> 
> * Given the way "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD" 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923
> 
> * Is this part of any relation.... Yes there are 2
> 
> * First relation is the A1, is this a national/state Highway YES! 
> because it has the route=road, network=NH 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279
> * Second relation is "Bruce Highway", is this national/state, NO! 
> because it does not have a network=NH or S tag.  
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331
> 
> What's missing from the above:
> 
> * The Bruce Highway relation 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331
> 
> * Does not identify that it is related to the A1 - National Highway
> * Does not identify that south most section in North Brisbane the M1
> * Does not identity that this is a State Route - but I am unsure if it 
> should
> 
> * Similarly, the A1 relation  
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279
> 
> * Does not identify that it is related to the Bruce Highway (route)
> 
> * The way  "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD" 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923
> 
> * Can't be reliably determined to be part of a state/national route and 
> found to be named "Bruce Highway". Yes, I can say its on the A1 
> (national highway) but I can't say that the Bruce Highway is a 
> State/Road route
> 
> My 2c
> 
> I'm unsure if what I am looking for should exist in a hierarchy of 
> parent/child relations, or if it is best left to trawling through tags 
> and finding references by convention and hope that things are tagged 
> correctly. I kinda think the first is correct, or else why would OSM 
> even have relations?
> 
> Parent Child relation down to the way members....
> 
> * RELATION: name=National Highway; ref=A1; route=road; network=NH
> 
> * RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=A1:M3; route=road; network=S  
> <--- not sure if this is S or NH
> 
> * RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=A1; route=road; network=S
> 
> * WAY....
> * WAY....
> 
> * RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=M1; route=road; network=S
> 
> * WAY...
> * WAY...
> 
> The above would allow a way's membership and hierarchy to be traversed.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Please let me know CHEEERS!
> 
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 at 14:50, Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:48 AM Andrew Hughes <ahhughes at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> Some worldwide/geographic tagging guidelines exist, that are based on 
>>> a combination with the "network" tag: see 
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_routes
>>> 
>> 
>> Have you read 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads#Routes
>> ?
>> 
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Links:
------
[1] http://mail.hover.com/State(Bell/Springvale)Highway
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