[talk-au] Tagging Gazetted Road Routes (National, State, Regional...)

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2022 at 12:39, Dian Ågesson <me at diacritic.xyz> wrote:

> My understanding that there are several distinct “highway” concepts in
> Australia.  When you are referring to *state routes *and *national routes*,
> are you talking about the old, numberic route numbering system? Or, are you
> talking about highways that have been gazetted as a "state controlled
> highway", such as State (Bell/Springvale) Highway. Does it actually make
> sense to have the "A1" as part of the "National Highway" network, given
> that it is an alphanumeric route?
>
> I don't believe it is possible to assume that every numbered route has a
> specific name, and vice versa (The A1!=Princes Highway!=Imlay Street,
> Eden), but it would be help to update the network tags to be more in line
> with international practice.
>
Scarily enough, I've just been looking at these maps over the last couple
of days!

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Maps-and-guides/Queensland-State-controlled-roads-and-region-maps

Unfortunately, though, although very pretty, they don't really say much to
a layman (& we would need permission to use the info anyway), eg
https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Travelandtransport/Maps-and-guides/regiondistrictmaps/centralqldregion.pdf?la=en
has lots of pretty coloured lines on it that depict 9 different types of
road network!, but I don't think any of them are actually signposted the
same as they show here?

I know that looking at the GC map, the M1 is marked as 12A & called Pacific
Hwy, while the Gold Coast Hwy is 11B but it's signposted as State Route 2?

Thanks

Graeme


> Dian
>
> On 2022-08-11 07:45, Andrew Hughes wrote:
>
> Hi Andrew,
>
> No I had not seen that and it's really helpful thank you.
>
> This is quite challenging to explain in an email but I will try...
>
> *Scenario:* Given a way, how can I determine if that way is part of a
> state or national route with a name?
>
> *Scenario in Action:*
>
>    - Given the way "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD"
>    https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923
>    - Is this part of any relation.... Yes there are 2
>       - First relation is the A1, is this a national/state Highway YES!
>       because it has the route=road, network=NH
>       https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279
>       - Second relation is "Bruce Highway", is this national/state, NO!
>       because it does not have a network=NH or S tag.
>       https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331
>
> *What's missing from the above:*
>
>    - The Bruce Highway relation
>    https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198331
>       - Does not identify that it is related to the A1 - National Highway
>       - Does not identify that south most section in North Brisbane the M1
>       - Does not identity that this is a State Route - *but I am unsure
>       if it should*
>    - Similarly, the A1 relation
>    https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/198279
>       - Does not identify that it is related to the Bruce Highway (route)
>    - The way  "Mulgrave Street Gin Gin QLD"
>    https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/31973923
>       - Can't be reliably determined to be part of a state/national route
>       and found to be named "Bruce Highway". Yes, I can say its on the A1
>       (national highway) but I can't say that the Bruce Highway is a State/Road
>       route
>
>
> *My 2c*
>
> I'm unsure if what I am looking for should exist in a hierarchy of
> parent/child relations, or if it is best left to trawling through tags and
> finding references by convention and hope that things are tagged correctly.
> I kinda think the first is correct, or else why would OSM even have
> relations?
>
> Parent Child relation down to the way members....
>
>    - RELATION: name=National Highway; ref=A1; route=road; network=NH
>       - RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=A1:M3; route=road; network=S
>       <--- not sure if this is S or NH
>          - RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=A1; route=road; network=S
>             - WAY....
>             - WAY....
>          - RELATION:   name=Bruce Highway  ref=M1; route=road; network=S
>             - WAY...
>             - WAY...
>
>
> The above would allow a way's membership and hierarchy to be traversed.
>
> *Thoughts?*
>
> Please let me know CHEEERS!
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 at 14:50, Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:48 AM Andrew Hughes <ahhughes at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Some worldwide/geographic tagging guidelines exist, that are based on a
> combination with the "network" tag: see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_routes
> >
>
> Have you read
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Roads#Routes
> ?
>
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