[talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13

Tue May 3 00:29:32 UTC 2022

Hi Anthony,

Below is a picture from the South Australian Road Rules. It shows the 
correct procedure for a u-turn there would be exactly from that point of 
view and back, including a small section of a "one-way" road.

https://imgur.com/a/Wn6jx8h

As the others earlier have mentioned, I would encourage you to take a 
moment to take a step back and consider these points, as this type of 
rapid fire back-and-forth is not particularly efficient.

Would you also be able to provide some details about how the routing is 
being tested? It would really help identify down-stream data consumers 
that may be interpreting OSM data differently than expected.

Dian

On 2022-05-03 10:28, Anthony Panozzo wrote:

> No it is not because the road in front of the POV car in a one way road 
> which is not allowed, it would even need you to drive for a little bit 
> going the wrong way lmao.
> 
> From: Luke Stewart
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 9:52 AM
> To: Anthony Panozzo
> Cc: Dian Ågesson; talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13
> 
> It is also acceptable from the point of view of the camera as stated in 
> the Road Rules.
> 
> On Tue, 3 May 2022 at 10:18, Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Yes at the median is fine, but not from where the point of view of that 
> picture is. TheSwavu has allowed u-turns starting from exactly the 
> point of view of that picture and back
> 
> From: Luke Stewart
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 9:28 AM
> To: Anthony Panozzo
> Cc: Dian Ågesson; talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13
> 
> The intersection shown in mapillary without traffic lights 
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=764585334231385&lat=-34.72009104&lng=138.66975917&z=17&focus=photo 
> would be one where performing a u-turn is allowed. As you go along the 
> mapillary trace, you can even see two different vehicles making u-turns 
> in median breaks.
> 
> On Tue, 3 May 2022 at 09:52, Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> You are wrong, you can not do u-turns at t-intersections on a one way 
> road
> 
> From: Dian Ågesson
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 8:39 AM
> To: Anthony Panozzo
> Cc: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13
> 
> Anthony,
> 
> This user is telling me I don't even know the road rules LMAO, and just 
> to be clear again... you are arguing this guy is free to click all the 
> buttons without question and you are happy to defend every single one 
> of his edits
> 
> Speaking personally, I am not defending every single one of his edits, 
> as I have not reviewed them all.
> 
> However, every edit that you've referred to in this mail chain as being 
> "wrong" hasn't had any issues. We've covered:
> 
> - Deleting a restriction which does not contain a from/to way (valid)
> 
> - remodelling intersections to remove crosses (valid)
> 
> - adding a u turn using a way as a "via" member (valid)
> 
> And you have now raised a different type of problem,
> 
> - Removing a u turn restriction at an intersection with no traffic 
> lights.
> 
> On the latter point, I quote
> 
> https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__legislation/lz/c/r/australian%20road%20rules/current/2014.205.auth.pdf
> 
> A driver must not make a U-turn at an intersection without traffic 
> lights if there is a no U-turn sign at the intersection"
> 
> Note 2--
> U-turns are permitted at intersections without traffic lights unless 
> there is a no U-turn sign, even though traffic lane arrows indicate 
> that the driver must or may turn right--see rule 92.
> 
> this is now the fourth type of error which isn't actually wrong.
> 
> If there is a valid issue, then obviously it should be fixed. But I am 
> unable to identify a problem in the edits you've raised.
> 
> Please, take a deep breath and consider some of the points raised 
> before responding with another flurry of emails.
> 
> dian
> 
> On 2022-05-02 22:49, Anthony Panozzo wrote:
> 
> This user is telling me I don't even know the road rules LMAO, and just 
> to be clear again... you are arguing this guy is free to click all the 
> buttons without question and you are happy to defend every single one 
> of his edits
> 
> From: talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 8:16 AM
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13
> 
> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au [1]
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 12 (Anthony Panozzo)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 22:44:40 +0000
> From: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> To: "talk-au at openstreetmap.org" <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 12
> Message-ID:
> <PR3P192MB092730C19A6C808662675473CCC19 at PR3P192MB0927.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> You said this ?I'm not sure I understand what you think the problem is 
> with this edit. The
> road rules in South Australia allow you to do a u-turn around the end 
> of a
> median at an intersection provided that there is no sign prohibiting it 
> or
> traffic lights:? which is 100% incorrect, you can only do a u-turn if 
> there is a sign permitting you to do so. You don?t have the 
> understanding to be able to blindly click buttons from this state,ent 
> alone, and yet people will come to your defence lmao
> 
> From: 
> talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 8:10 AM
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 12
> 
> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au [1]
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re: Talk-au Digest,
> Vol 179, Issue 6) (Andrew Davidson)
> 2. TheSwavu (Anthony Panozzo)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 08:33:00 +1000
> From: Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com>
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re:
> Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> Message-ID: <80784b78-0628-85f3-f104-1f10b652d6f2 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 3/5/22 08:18, Anthony Panozzo wrote:
>> Well this is the situation, TheSwavu is directly emailing me telling 
>> me
>> it is perfectly legal to do u-turns at intersections
> 
> Gmail will send an email to both the mail list and the original sender
> by default on reply. You will have noticed the list email address in 
> the
> CC:. Or maybe you didn't notice?
> 
> By the way, the link you sent me off-list:
> 
> https://samotor.raa.com.au/do-you-know-the-u-turn-road-rules/
> 
> says exactly the same thing I was trying to explain to you. Perhaps 
> this
> video might make it clearer:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0SzfStP1nE
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 22:38:42 +0000
> From: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> To: "talk-au at openstreetmap.org" <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [talk-au] TheSwavu
> Message-ID:
> <PR3P192MB0927765CF14135074D2B08A2CCC19 at PR3P192MB0927.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> By directly emailing me he trying to mess up the way au-talk is 
> formatting, no one here gets to see what he is emailing me, he has no 
> clue about the laws/rules or the areas, this is a joke
> 
> From: 
> talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 8:04 AM
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 11
> 
> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au [1]
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: New OSM Discourse site: community.osm.org [2] (Andy Townsend)
> 2. U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re:  Talk-au Digest, Vol
> 179, Issue 6) (Andrew Davidson)
> 3. Re: U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re: Talk-au Digest,
> Vol 179, Issue 6) (Anthony Panozzo)
> 4. Re: U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re: Talk-au Digest,
> Vol 179, Issue 6) (Anthony Panozzo)
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 22:50:24 +0100
> From: Andy Townsend <ajt1047 at gmail.com>
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] New OSM Discourse site: community.osm.org [2]
> Message-ID: <fff4b3e7-9fae-1404-764d-5c0566a11ea4 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 02/05/2022 22:36, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>> 
>> How do we get a category we can interact with through email? I haven't
>> used Discource enough to picture how it works.
>> 
> If you enable mailing list mode in your profile, you will get emailed
> all messages and can reply to them by email too.? What you can't yet do
> is to create a new thread by email - to do that you'll need to go to
> e.g. https://community.openstreetmap.org/c/help-and-support/7 [3] and 
> click
> "new topic".
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Andy
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 08:00:50 +1000
> From: Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com>
> To: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [talk-au] U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re:  Talk-au
> Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> Message-ID:
> <CACXR7K04v4tzC+sr8XQDYpnDRTTwsz4ao0COZoc+hJiEgqUdKw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Tue, 3 May 2022, 03:02 Anthony Panozzo, <panozz at outlook.com> wrote:
> 
>> I would like to report theswavu for this edit Relation History: 
>> 13736691
>> | OpenStreetMap 
>> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13736691/history>
>> he deleted a restriction I put there to prevent u-turning from the 
>> service
>> road.
>> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you think the problem is with this edit. 
> The
> road rules in South Australia allow you to do a u-turn around the end 
> of a
> median at an intersection provided that there is no sign prohibiting it 
> or
> traffic lights:
> 
> https://www.approveddrivingschool.com.au/mastering-u-turns-3-point-turns/
> 
> There is no sign or traffic lights at this intersection so you are 
> allowed
> to do a u-turn, provided that you adhere to the other associated rules:
> 
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1365151817189473
> 
>> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 22:18:15 +0000
> From: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> To: "talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org"
> <talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re:
> Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> Message-ID:
> <PR3P192MB09279D6FA3E2149215C9CB55CCC19 at PR3P192MB0927.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Well this is the situation, TheSwavu is directly emailing me telling me 
> it is perfectly legal to do u-turns at intersections, lmao he doesn?t 
> know the laws, he doesn?t know the area, he cant be trusted to blindly 
> click buttons but so many people are arguing he is perfectly fine to go 
> about his edits I hope DWG see this Do you know the U-turn road rules? 
> | samotor The RAA 
> Magazine<https://samotor.raa.com.au/do-you-know-the-u-turn-road-rules/#:~:text=If%20you%E2%80%99ve%20seen%20a%20fellow%20driver%20doing%20a,you%20can%20perform%20this%20manoeuvre%20at%20this%20location.>
> 
> From: Andrew Davidson<mailto:theswavu at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2022 7:31 AM
> To: Anthony Panozzo<mailto:panozz at outlook.com>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap<mailto:talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re: [talk-au] Talk-au 
> Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> 
> On Tue, 3 May 2022, 03:02 Anthony Panozzo, 
> <panozz at outlook.com<mailto:panozz at outlook.com>> wrote:
> I would like to report theswavu for this edit Relation History: 
> 13736691 | 
> OpenStreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13736691/history> 
> he deleted a restriction I put there to prevent u-turning from the 
> service road.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you think the problem is with this edit. 
> The road rules in South Australia allow you to do a u-turn around the 
> end of a median at an intersection provided that there is no sign 
> prohibiting it or traffic lights:
> 
> https://www.approveddrivingschool.com.au/mastering-u-turns-3-point-turns/
> 
> There is no sign or traffic lights at this intersection so you are 
> allowed to do a u-turn, provided that you adhere to the other 
> associated rules:
> 
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1365151817189473
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 22:30:13 +0000
> From: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> To: Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com>, "talk-au at openstreetmap.org"
> <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re:
> Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> Message-ID:
> <PR3P192MB092790D283DCDDD9A624249DCCC19 at PR3P192MB0927.EURP192.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Well this is the situation, TheSwavu is directly emailing me telling me 
> it is perfectly legal to do u-turns at intersections, lmao he doesn?t 
> know the laws, he doesn?t know the area, he cant be trusted to blindly 
> click buttons but so many people are arguing he is perfectly fine to go 
> about his edits I hope DWG see this
> Do you know the U-turn road rules? | samotor The RAA 
> Magazine<https://samotor.raa.com.au/do-you-know-the-u-turn-road-rules/#:~:text=If%20you%E2%80%99ve%20seen%20a%20fellow%20driver%20doing%20a,you%20can%20perform%20this%20manoeuvre%20at%20this%20location.>
> 
> And he didn?t even watch the video in the link he sent me either, this 
> is a complete joke, keep in mind you are arguing FOR this guy to keep 
> going about his edits freely with out question this blow my mind, you 
> would rather win an argument than care 1 bit about the map
> 
> From: Andrew Davidson <theswavu at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 7:30:50 AM
> To: Anthony Panozzo <panozz at outlook.com>
> Cc: OpenStreetMap <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: U-turn rules in South Australia (Was Re: [talk-au] Talk-au 
> Digest, Vol 179, Issue 6)
> 
> On Tue, 3 May 2022, 03:02 Anthony Panozzo, 
> <panozz at outlook.com<mailto:panozz at outlook.com>> wrote:
> 
> I would like to report theswavu for this edit Relation History: 
> 13736691 | 
> OpenStreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13736691/history> 
> he deleted a restriction I put there to prevent u-turning from the 
> service road.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you think the problem is with this edit. 
> The road rules in South Australia allow you to do a u-turn around the 
> end of a median at an intersection provided that there is no sign 
> prohibiting it or traffic lights:
> 
> https://www.approveddrivingschool.com.au/mastering-u-turns-3-point-turns/
> 
> There is no sign or traffic lights at this intersection so you are 
> allowed to do a u-turn, provided that you adhere to the other 
> associated rules:
> 
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=1365151817189473
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> ****************************************
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> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 179, Issue 13
> ****************************************
> 
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