[talk-au] 1. Proposing a bulk locality edit for new admin_level definitions (Dian ?gesson)

Mon May 9 13:08:11 UTC 2022

I fully support this bulk edit

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Today's Topics:

   1. Proposing a bulk locality edit for new admin_level
      definitions (Dian ?gesson)
   2. Re: Basic question (Warin)
   3. Re: UK's Ordnance Survey to launch mapping app in Australia
      (Warin)

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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 14:11:33 +1000
From: Dian ?gesson <me at diacritic.xyz>
To: OSM Australian Talk List <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [talk-au] Proposing a bulk locality edit for new admin_level
        definitions
Message-ID: <42e93b172beae60cdba7e07c633598e4 at diacritic.xyz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"

Hey all,

Following the mailing list discussion last month
(https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2022-April/016101.html),
the Australian admin_levels have been updated in the wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#admin_level=*_Country_specific_values.
Admin_level=7 was removed, and suburbs/localities have been adjusted to
level 9, to better align with other countries and improve the prominence
in rendering.

I would like to propose performing a bulk edit to change the admin_level
of these boundaries to ease the transition. This would involve:

         * using JOSM to retrieve all relations in Australia with
boundary=administrative and admin_level=10
         * high-level confirmation that the locality is correct (ie, consistent
with the version uploaded by the PSMA import)
         * Changing admin_level to 9

Due to the size of the data being queried, this might be accomplished
with a changeset for each state/territory.

Are there any comments, feedback or objections about this proposed bulk
edit? If there aren't any objections, I'll look to make the change this
weekend.

Dian
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:38:06 +1000
From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Basic question
Message-ID: <1b54e015-5189-441a-3540-fb3f3865a35c at gmail.com>
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On 8/10/21 17:41, Andrew & Ingrid Parker wrote:
> Thank you everyone. It is clear now that?it is OK to have an area
> inside or overlapping another area. That is logical and contrary to
> what I had been told by another mapper. It may be the case that I
> misunderstood what they were saying.

Usually the last part - "misunderstood what they were saying" is the
largest part of the problem.

My take;

 ?landuse=forest does not denote trees but the human use of the land to
get timber.

natural=wood = trees exist here! Note 'natural' does not, in OSM terms'
exclude human intervention. So if it is planted, maintained, etc by
humans then it is still ok to tag 'natural=wood'.

An example is where a tree area overlaps both a state forest and farm
land. The tree area can be drawn as one area. While the farm and state
forest can be separate areas overlapped by the tree area.

What you should not do is overlap areas of land covers such as grass and
trees, or sand and trees. And similarly for land use - farm and
industrial for example.

> Cheers
> Andrew Parker
>
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 14:26, Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 11:53, cleary <osm at 97k.com> wrote:
>
>
>         Good mapping practice is to keep administrative boundaries
>         such as state parks, conservation areas, suburbs etc separate
>         from natural features such as water, waterways, woods etc.?
>         While they sometimes approximate, they rarely coincide exactly.
>
>         Tagging a state park as natural=wood is usually inappropriate
>         because there will, nearly always, be parts of the park that
>         are unwooded.? Best to map the park with its official boundary
>         and then map the natural features separately using other
>         unofficial sources such as survey and satellite imagery.
>
>
>     Agreed, though as a rough first pass it has been common to tag
>     natural=wood on the administrative boundary if it's 90% correct,
>     but eventually as the mapping becomes more detailed separate
>     natural=wood is the way to go.
>

In some parts it has been applied where trees <70%... It was done when
national parks had no rendering .. tagging for the render. Today I think
the ktree tags should be removed from all admin boundaries.. but that is
just me.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 17:48:34 +1000
From: Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com>
To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] UK's Ordnance Survey to launch mapping app in
        Australia
Message-ID: <9a8dea72-8d12-8e20-0439-bcc26e3fa4aa at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 23/2/21 12:19, Andrew Davidson wrote:
> https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/22/uk-ordnance-survey-launch-mapping-app-iustralia
>
> If you're not prepared to pay for the subscription it is a rather
> rubbish experience. You get a MapBox tile layer and laughably low-res
> aerial imagery.
>
> _

Ordnance Survey (OS) is after money. Like most government departments (UK + Oz) the government is after 'cost recovery' (or more) so you pay to get the data your taxes paid to collect.
I have no idea why OS thinks they can make money in Oz, maybe they have some data from Oz in their archives they think they  can sell...

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