[talk-au] Tagging fire stations

Mon Oct 10 18:10:05 UTC 2022

Hi Y'all. (So lived in Texas in a past life..)

Possibly also worth noting

- Many a rural/remote site has an ill defined block boundary. Some are 
tucked in corners of rec reserves and some are even on private land. 
(which affects road access tags)

- Naming (on signs etc) may be problematic. Service vs Brigade vs 
Station for example. ie is it a concern that using the name from an 
allowed database contras what locals use. To add confusion I have seen a 
crop of fairly new buildings with "official" signage, but the existing 
(still in use) sheds (now with a 2nd appliance) retain the old.

Cheers, Bob

On 10/10/22 16:49, Phil Wyatt wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Well I am not too sure that the correct tagging of buildings is 
> applied at all in Australia as I can only see about 200 uses of 
> building:use=* in all of Oz! Seems most folks use the building tag to 
> denote current use rather than initial construction intention. I am 
> sure there are more than 200 building adaptations across the country.
>
> I could think of several building in my state that have had second or 
> third lives from the original intention and none have building:use 
> tagging and there must be 10,000’s across the country. I also 
> understand that the fire station tagging will likely be much harder in 
> cities than in rural areas where most will be a shed on a block 
> somewhere. Also the more recent trend of combining fire, ambulance and 
> maybe SES is also something that sort of hinders a ‘generic’ standard 
> approach but nodes really help for each of these functions across a 
> single site with combined building use.
>
> I am inclined to think that the gold standard for a standalone fire 
> station would be
>
>   * amenity=fire_station for the block of land on which it stands
>   * operator, wikidata etc and all other details on the block rather
>     than the building
>   * combined with building=fire_station (if built specifically) or
>     building:use=fire_station if its known that it was built for
>     another purpose
>
> Sample – standalone = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102488871
>
> and the gold standard for a combined facility
>
>   * amenity=emergency_service on the block (no tagging for the 
>     renderer by using amenity=fire_station!)
>   * building tags of building=government (if not specific buildings
>     for each service)
>   * nodes for each service if there are not specific buildings
>     dedicated to each service and include all the operator, wikidate
>     etc on these nodes
>   * If specific buildings then tag the buildings (operator, wikidata
>     etc) instead of individual nodes
>
> Sample – separate buildings = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102327375
>
> Sample – combined buildings = https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1102321688
>
> More thoughts?
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
> *From:*Mark Rattigan <mark at rattigan.id.au>
> *Sent:* Monday, 10 October 2022 10:24 AM
> *To:* talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> *Cc:* phil at wyatt-family.com
> *Subject:* Re: Tagging fire stations
>
> Hi Phil
>
> I suspect that 'cleaning-up' these tags would require local knowledge 
> for each location, and is certainly not as clean-cut as making sure 
> that either one or the other is used.
>
> There are cases when only the building tag should be used, and some 
> when only the amenity tag should be used. And others when both are 
> appropriate.
>
> The building tag is intended for the original purpose of the building 
> - ie, built as/to be a fire station. A historical/defunct fire station 
> is still tagged as building=fire_station, even when it's no longer in 
> use as such. (The same philosophy applies to building=church, even 
> when it's no longer a place of worship)
>
> The amenity=fire_station indicates a location from which fire brigades 
> (currently) operate.
>
> For example, the DFES Education and Heritage Centre in Perth could be 
> tagged as building=fire_station because that was its original purpose 
> - it was originally No. 1 Fire Station. It couldn't be 
> amenity=fire_station as it's not used as a fire station.
>
> There are also plenty of minor RFS brigades which operate out of 
> buildings that weren't originally built to be fire stations.
>
> As for the amenity and whether it's an area or a point - it could 
> possibly depend on whether the facility is solely for a fire brigade.
>
> For example, my local emergency service building houses all of Police, 
> Ambulance, Fire&Rescue, RFS and SES. It seems to have the following tags:
>
>     For the building (perhaps this is incorrect though!)
>
>     building=government
>
>     amenity=fire_station
>
>     Within this building there are separate nodes:
>
>     1: emergency=ambulance_station (for Ambulance)
>
>     2: amenity=fire_station (for RFS)
>
>     3: amenity=emergency_service and emergency=ses_station (for SES)
>
>     4: amenity=police
>
>     (I thought there used to be a node tagged amenity=fire_station for
>     Fire&Rescue, but it's no-longer.)
>
> Cheers
>
> Mark
>
> Message: 4
>
> Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2022 20:10:15 +1100
>
> From: "Phil Wyatt" <phil at wyatt-family.com>
>
> To: "OSM-Au" <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [talk-au] Next tagging clean up project
> Message-ID: <000401d8dbbe$f3cbf990$db63ecb0$@wyatt-family.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> I am looking for my next tagging clean-up project and wondered about 
> amenity
> and building tags for fire stations
>
>
>
> amenity=fire_station -
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station> -
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAq <https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAq>
>
>
>
> building=fire_station -
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station> -
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAr <https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1mAr>
>
>
>
> This is partly in response to an issue logged for the ID editor 
> requesting a
> preset for fire stations buildings.
>
>
>
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/pull/603 
> <https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/pull/603>
>
>
>
> There is already an ID preset for 'Fire Station' that uses the
> amenity=fire_station key/value but it did get me looking at the 
> differences
> and how its been applied in Australia. There is a clear mix of 
> buildings and
> amenity tagging on both station areas and buildings, and some with both
> tags!
>
>
>
> https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/australia-oceania/australia/tags/amenity=fire_s 
> <https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/australia-oceania/australia/tags/amenity=fire_s>
> tation#combinations
>
>
>
> Should it always be the case that the 'plot' on which the fire station
> building resides is the 'amenity' and the 'building' should be separate
> within the plot? To me, its not 100% clear in the wiki's.
>
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
> Cheers - Phil
>
>
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