[talk-au] Deletion of informal paths by NSW NPWS

[Andrew Welch]

I think it might also be important to state that OSM is a database, so if
consumers aren’t rendering tracks properly if tagged as such, the issue is
with them not us, and that what they are doing can be considered as
vandalism by mappers. We have ways to reflect the current state, and ensure
that mappers unaware of these discussions won’t go ahead and re-add the
trails.

Thanks,
Andrew Welch
mail at andrewwelch.net


On Tue, 20 Feb 2024 at 3:45 pm, Mark Pulley <mrpulley at iinet.net.au> wrote:

> I’ve just had another private message from Stephen Stenberg:
>
> I had replied privately:
>
> Prior to reversion, we had been discussing this for several months at the
> talk-au mailing list. I had delayed the reversion as I was of the
> understanding that someone from NPWS was about to join the discussion, but
> that did not eventuate.
> For reasons discussed on some of the previous changesets, and on the
> mailing list, there should be something present. I’ve added a comment to my
> changeset regarding a couple of suitable changes, and have sent a note back
> to the mailing list for further discussion.
>
> I had also added a comment to the most recent changeset.
>
> He has replied to me:
>
> I hope this message finds you well. Several months ago, you were informed
> about the decision to exclude certain paths near Apsley Falls Campground
> from OpenStreetMap. Despite clear communication from the NSW National Parks
> and Wildlife Service (NPWS) stating that these tracks, at their request,
> have been removed, it appears there is a persistent effort to reintroduce
> them.
> It is important to emphasize that these paths are situated on NPWS land,
> and as part of their management strategy, NPWS no longer wishes for these
> paths to be displayed. Reinstating these pathways not only contradicts NPWS
> wishes but also requires additional work hours from their end to rectify
> the situation.
> It is crucial to understand that NPWS has already dedicated resources to
> remove these paths, and by reapplying them, it creates unnecessary
> challenges. I urge you to respect NPWS’s decision and refrain from adding
> these paths back onto OpenStreetMap.
> Your cooperation in this matter is greatly appreciated and will contribute
> to the effective management of the area.
> Thank you for your understanding.
>
> I have replied back, requesting that he either make comments on the
> changeset, or discuss on the mailing list, rather than send private
> messages, as I don’t want to be passing messages back and forth. (Thanks
> to tonyf1 who has made the same suggestion on the changeset.)
>
> Mark P.
>
> On 20 Feb 2024, at 2:13 pm, Mark Pulley <mrpulley at iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> I’ve just received a private message from Stephen Stenberg (who had
> deleted these last time):
>
> Contrary to your statement, the NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service
> has officially closed the track.
> “Reasons for reversion: This is still visible on the ground (checked by
> myself 30 November 2023) The track is not formally closed.”
> Kindly refrain from reinstating this track, as doing so will necessitate
> its removal once again by NPWS.
>
> So far the track hasn’t been deleted again.
> I had asked on one of the older changesets about whether this had been
> officially closed - didn’t get an answer to that, only "These tracks per
> our request have been removed. Please do not add them back on."
> It’s a shame that NPWS hadn’t bothered to join the discussion on here.
> I’ve added a comment to my reversion changeset, suggesting access=no
> (rather than deleting outright). Any relevant comments there are welcome!
>
> Mark P.
>
> On 13 Feb 2024, at 11:17 pm, Mark Pulley <mrpulley at iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Done. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/147406352
>
> Mark P.
>
>
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