[OSM-talk-be] About SNCB/NMBS and InfrabelnAN

[Ben Laenen]

gvdmoort at skynet.be wrote:
> Should a way/relation relative to a railway line be described as a
> �line� of the SNCB/NMBS (with the focus on the service, the operator,
> the destinations, and so) or a physical infrastructure of Infrabel (with
>  the focus on the technical characteristics) ?
> 
> Now, there are �lines� focused on the first choice:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/271000
> Relation: Bruxelles - Namur - Li�ge - Liers
> Tags: name = Bruxelles - Namur - Li�ge - Liers
>       network = IC
>       operator = NMBS/SNCB
>       ref = IC M
> 
> and others focused on the 2d:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/107939
> 
> (A little line between Gembloux and Jemeppes)
> Tags: operator = infrabel
>       ref = 144

Both have their use, and most railways would have a relation of the second 
kind with the reference number of that rail. And then one or more (or maybe 
no) relations of the first kind with the trains that drive on them.

You've missed two important tags though: "type" and "route". The railway 
reference numbers will have "type=route" + "route=rail", while the train 
service itself will have a "type=route" + "route=train"


Although I have my questions on whether we should really use the "IC M" or
"IR a" type of train numbers. Most people traveling trains would be more 
familiar with the four number code of each train, as that's the number 
appearing on the screens at stations. That would also solve the problem that 
(say) IC B doesn't take the same route during the entire day, or doesn't stop 
at the same stations. Whereas the four number code will identify only one 
train each day which -- in the optimal situation, but surely not in real life 
-- should follow exactly the same path each day (not taking the occasional 
situation into account where it's decided only at the moment itself over which 
rails they'll send a train).


> No node as stop, even though there are some, like Mazy:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/369736818
> 
> not tagged as part of the line.
> 
> I've tried to download this URL:
> 
> http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.6/relation[network=IC|CR][bb
> ox=2.54,49.49,6.41,51.55]
> 
> expecting to get all the lines and stops of Belgium, but that failed.

probably takes way too long to process. But there's always 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Railways although 
nothing says that that list is correct and complete.

> I think that an osm-client, an application, should be able to make a
> request returning all the railway lines of Belgium, or all the
> train-relations of the SNCB/NMBS, and that's not identical.
> 
> In the 1rst relation, there are unused railways,

Actually, all railways should have a ref number, except the rails in yards and 
sidetracks at stations or other places (and maybe other exceptions. I don't 
think military railways have numbers for example, and neither do private 
railways. And the port of Antwerp is full of railways without numbers). So if 
you've seen railways without the route=rail relation, then probably no-one 
mapped it yet.

> in the 2d, there are
> some lines redundant with others (international lines, f.i.).

What do you mean with "redundant"?

> A finest
> request could return the IC, IR or L lines if the tags are accurate.
> 
> So what do you think ? In the case of the line 144, must a new relation
> be introduced with references to the same ways, but with other tags ?

Sure, an extra relation for each passenger train going over them.

(btw, freight trains also travel according to time tables with similar train 
numbers like passenger trains so one could in principle add relations for 
those as well, but without information from someone working in NMBS/SNCB it's 
impossible to get to that information)


> By the way, have some mappers had contact with Infrabel or SNCB/NMBS ?
> Are they kindly or unwilling about the use of their data ?

Yeah, someone received a set of gps tracks from them which would've certainly 
helped with some of the more exotic railways. But he just vanished after that 
and no-one has seen the data set. Information is still on the wiki 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Railways#Potential_datasets
and http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Orwall

Greetings
Ben