[OSM-talk-be] decreet openbaarheid van bestuur / decreet hergebruik van overheidsinformatie

[Glenn Plas]

Great information Jo,

I think it merits a wiki page.  Is there already an existing one we can 
edit ?   I've know your strategy is like this for a long time, and think 
it's the best we can do given the circumstances, so we should push this 
forward as the de facto standard.

Thanks for the work, glad you are 'back'  ;-)

Glenn


On 20-12-13 15:17, Jo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I emailed to De Lijn with the question whether it was OK to add this text:
>
>
>           De Lijn
>
> Openstreetmap contains data about public transport with permission 
> from *De Lijn*, the public transport company in the region of 
> 'Vlaanderen' in Belgium. This permission does not mean Openstreetmap 
> is endorsed by *De Lijn*. Technical solutions 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/De_Lijndata> 
> are being implemented by Openstreetmap contributors to keep the data 
> accurate and up-to-date on a best effort basis. There are no 
> guarantees however that the data is fit for any purpose
>
>
> to
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#De_Lijn
>
> They double checked with the legal department and they confirmed it is OK.
>
> On the web site of AGIV, there is also data of De Lijn available, but 
> as far as I can see, not for the general public.
>
> There is also a mention that if one wants to use it for commercial 
> purposes, one has to ask De Lijn directly. This involves signing their 
> standard contract, which I did. In a way it's only a formality, anyone 
> can do it. Anyway, that's the way to get access to their FTP server.
>
> As far as stops go, we have 8000 which are actually served by buses 
> left to add. The other 29886 are already available.
> Once that data is in OSM, it becomes available under the ODBL. Is OKFN 
> interested in regular updates of this dataset? Or do you want to put 
> instructions on your site, how one can download the latest version of 
> this data with an Overpass query?
>
> Since I started adding them, some contributors have reacted: oh there 
> is no need to add/edit bus stops anymore. This is not quite true. For 
> many stops, it's possible to position them either on the shelter or on 
> the B U S markings which are visible on aerial imagery, for many, many 
> others, the positions need to be checked in the field.
>
> Some stops have more than 1 ref number. There is only one pole, but 
> the different divisions (entiteiten/provinces) didn't agree on 1 
> number. In this case I created 2 nodes next to each other. At the 
> moment I don't have another way to cope with this problem. (due to 
> choices for how to store the information efficiently in the DB I use 
> to compare upstream and downstream data).
> The same thing is true when a stop is served by more than one 
> operator. It's a lot easier to verify in an automated way when there 
> is one node per operator. Otherwise zone becomes 89;3422 for stops 
> which are served by De Lijn and Veolia, for example. Or the naming 
> clashes. Or the route_ref has entries for lines which are unrelated to 
> De Lijn, so it becomes too hard to verify.
>
> An other problem I encountered is when a tram stop and a bus stop have 
> the same ref number. In this case I left it on the bus stop and 
> removed it from the tram stop. There can be only one. (I use these ref 
> numbers as the common ground between the data of De Lijn and the data 
> in OSM).
>
> Such stops will always be members of the same stop_area relation.
>
>
> I'm still working on a way to do QC on the routes. No rest for the 
> wicked :-)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Jo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/12/17 Ben Abelshausen <ben.abelshausen at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ben.abelshausen at gmail.com>>
>
>     Hi All,
>
>     We recieved this email on the okfn-be list from Pieter:
>
>         Noël Van Herreweghe of Corvé/Bestuurzaken Flemish government
>         published a list of datasets that should be open data
>         according "decreet openbaarheid van bestuur / decreet
>         hergebruik van overheidsinformatie" and the new policy at the
>         Flemish Government that databases should be open by default,
>         not by exception.
>
>         If you cannot access a certain dataset in this list:
>         http://demo.thedatatank.com/flanders/datasets
>         you should send an email to the responsible organisation. If
>         the organisation declines you the access to this we can start
>         a "beroepsprocedure". In all other cases we will have a bunch
>         of new open data :)
>
>         I already did this for Codex Vlaanderen. They first reacted a
>         bit slow and asked me question about how I wanted the data.
>         When I got it, I've put it on Github. Right now they are
>         moving towards a more professional way of opening up their
>         data. All because just one question.
>
>         Conclusion: we need your help! Send a couple of emails, open
>         Flanders :)
>
>
>     This is also relevant here, the data in this list should be
>     available as open-data (same licence as CRAB) and there is a lot
>     of geo-data. A few highlights from that list:
>
>     - GRB
>     - MRB Wegen
>     - De Lijn routeplanner
>     - ...
>
>     @jo: I you want you can now request full access to the data from
>     de lijn quoting this "decreet openbaarheid van bestuur / decreet
>     hergebruik van overheidsinformatie", they should give you the
>     relevant data including an appropriate licence without you having
>     to guarantee them . I think this also implies the schedules.
>     @marc: I see 'Inventaris Bouwkundig Erfgoed' and other relevant
>     stuff! :-)
>
>     If you plan on trying to get a dataset then maybe it's a good idea
>     to post this on this list. This will prevent duplicate efforts.
>
>     I will try and get the GRB/MRB wegen or access to it.
>
>     Met vriendelijke groeten,
>     Best regards,
>
>     Ben Abelshausen
>
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-- 
"The program isn't debugged until the last user is dead."

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