[OSM-talk-be] Brussels and Belgium

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 09:21:06PM +0100, André Pirard wrote:
> Let us use the correct words instead.
> The constitution defines *3 linguistic communities* and *4 linguistic

So let's be clear about this.
- Article 2 defines 3 communities:
  - Dutch-speaking Community, Vlaamse Gemeenschap, la
    Communauté flamande, Flämische Gemeinschaft
  - French-speaking, Franse Gemeenschap, la Communauté française,
    Französische Gemeinschaft
  - German-speaking Community, Duitstalige Gemeenschap, la
    Communauté germanophone, Deutschsprachige Gemeinschaft
- Article 3 defines 3 regions:
  - Flemish Region, Vlaamse Gewest, la Région flamande, Flämische
    Region
  - Walloon Region, Waalse Gewest, la Région wallonne, Wallonische
    Region
  - Brussels-Capital Region, Brusselse Gewest, la Région
    bruxelloise, Brüsseler Region
- Article 4 defines 4 language areas:
  - Dutch language area, Nederlandse taalgebied, la région de
    langue néerlandaise, das niederländische Sprachgebiet
  - Bilingual Brussels-Capital area, tweetalige gebied
    Brussel-Hoofdstad, la région bilingue de Bruxelles-Capitale,
    das zweisprachige Gebiet Brüssel-Hauptstadt
  - French language area, Franse taalgebied, la région de langue
    française, das französische Sprachgebiet
  - German language area, Duitse taalgebied, a région de langue
    allemande, das deutsche Sprachgebiet

All names copied from the constitution except for the English.

Note that for the Dutch text of the region it says "Brusselse
Gewest" but other parts of the constitution talk about "Brusselse
Hoofdstedelijke Gewest".  The same is also the case in French
where it becomes "la Région de Bruxelles-Capitale", and German
where it becomes "der Region Brüssel-Hauptstadt".  It's very
good that we have consitent names in the constitution.

Also see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communities,_regions_and_language_areas_of_Belgium

Article 4 says that each municipality belongs to one of the
language areas.

Article 5 defines to which region (article 3) each province
belongs.  Note that Brussels isn't part of any of the provinces,
and is it's own region.

Article 127 defines the Dutch-speaking community as covering the
Dutch language area plus the Bilingual Brussels-Capital area, and
the French-speaking community as covering the French language area
and Bilingual Brussels-Capital area.  So the Bilingual
Brussels-Capital is covered by 2 communities.

The wiki
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative)
currently says to use:
- admin level 3, but boundary=political for communities
- admin level 4 for regions
- nothing about language areas

People have always been changing what it says without discussing
this on the list.  I don't really care how it's mapped, as long
as we can agree on how to map it and then stop changing it.

> So, in addition to correcting those wrong names:
> 
>   * a Brussels bilingual region should be added, it should be inside
>     Belgium.

I assume that's area and not region.  We don't seem to have
area's yet?

For Brussels we have a:
city:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2404020

And a region:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/54094

Buth people seem to love to add the same ways to relations
instead of just using it as subarea.

>   * Brussels-Capital Region
>     <http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/54094> should be
>     removed from within French and Flemish speaking regions.

If it's part of anything, it's part of the communities, not
the regions.  And it's currently part of the communities.

>   * there should be a hole in the Flemish region to put that
>     Brussels-Capital bilingual region into

There should be a hole in the language area (which we don't have)
and the region
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/53134), which seems
to be the case, and you can argue about the communitie
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/53136)

> But now, *regarding Nominatim*:

Please don't tag for the software, fix the software.


Kurt