[OSM-talk-be] TEC & Open Data: let's start !

Mon Jun 9 07:10:42 UTC 2014

Hi André,

I'm looking at these files now:
http://opendata.awt.be/dataset/documentation-des-donnees-horaires-tec

One of these days I'll convert them with PostGIS as an intermediary. All
the needed data is in there. It's very comparable to what De Lijn provides.
A big plus is that the zones are included.

I'll come up with a way to convert the city/village names to 'normal' case
from their uppercase versions, of course including the accents where needed.

It's not realistic to wait for TEC to fix all the errors in their data,
we'll take care of that ourselves during the integration with OSM data.

I stopped puttins source tags on the objects themselves. They should be put
on the changesets instead.

Jo

2014-06-09 5:50 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com>:

>  On 2014-06-07 09:01, Jo wrote :
>
>  Hi André,
>
> I'm trying to download the .OSM file you created. Why don't you put it on
> dropbox if you don't want to host it on your own server?
>
> Hi Jo,
>
> I don't put files on dropbox because, I think, the name changes when they
> are updated.
> They are on my server all-right, but I have temporarily renamed the
> directory because:
>
> Mainly, the data has no line numbers and I can't imagine a bus line map
> without line numbers.
> Also because I wrote (below) the options I used for the tags
>
> I made the following TEC => OSM tag conversion.
> POT_NOM_HA => name
> POT_ID => ref
> POT_ZONE_T => zone
> They are full of Osmose detectable or not mistakes with missing accents on
> uppercase letters.
>
> and absolutely nobody replied, showing a total lack of interest for what I
> did and for using uniform conventions.
>
> In particular, the TEC data is invalid for OSM because it contains
> municipality names in uppercase and full of spelling mistakes because the
> names have no accents (can you spell CHENEE, FLORZE and a full line of
> that).
> So, we have to decide if we risk plenty of Osmose errors, or if we
> lowercase the municipality named and correct all the spelling mistakes or
> if we remove that name from the tag as the present tagging does.
>
> I made my files compatible with what I examined of the present tagging.
>
> When I last looked at this document,
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources/TEC
> I saw that it disregards compatibility with what has been done already.
>
> So, in short, I am waiting for a discussion to start and decide what tags
> to put in my data before releasing it.
>
> And I recommend to contact TEC and ask if we could have data with line
> numbers any time soon.
>
> Comparison data below.
>
> Best regards,
>
>   André.
> On 2014-05-10 19:08, Jo wrote :
>
>  ... If you'd like to bus stops, there are still around 4000 in Flanders
> which need to be added.
>
>  It involves looking up the zone information and checking the position on
> AGIV imagery.
>
>  You can find the latest version of the converted data here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv675c51de33egi/DL.osm.zip
>
>
> De Lijn's data:
>
>   from Aalst Station Perron 5  name
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name?uselang=en> De Lijn 213
> Aalst Station - Brussel Noord  operator
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:operator?uselang=en> De Lijn  ref
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref?uselang=en> 213  route
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:route?uselang=en> bus
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route=bus?uselang=en>  to Brussel
> Noord Perron 2  type
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:type?uselang=en> route
>
> bus=yes
> created_by=BRUSSELSESTEENWEG ASSE
> highway=bus_stop
> name=Asse Ten Berg
> operator=De Lijn
> public_transport=platform
> ref=300215
> route_ref=213;214;215;216
> zone=13
>
> My tags are as follows.
>
> what I translated from TEC:
> name=CHENEE Gare
> ref=Lcegare2
> zone=5820
>
> what I added:
> highway=bus_stop
> operator=TEC
>
> what is to add:
> bus=yes
> public_transport=platform
>
> source=2014-4 TEC
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-05-03 2:08 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com>:
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> No reply to my former e-mail. Are the bugs I discover forwarded to SPW?
>> In addition to the 403 error reported below, I can see no data in the
>> online browser
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer>
>> .
>> A wheel spins and turns to a red cross after a timeout.  No bus lines.
>> Has anybody seen this this data yet?  I would like to know if the lines
>> are numbered.
>> Also,  http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?&search-text=TEC
>> returns no selection.
>>
>> As there will probably never be a (correctly working) TEC WMS server for
>> JOSM...
>> Not even a reply to my suggestions.
>>
>> I stored a *TEC_2014_04.gpx* @
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Papou/traces/1698225
>> It can be used as a JOSM layer to display the TEC data at the same time
>> as the OSM map.
>> Please rename it back to original filename;  Customize it e.g. yellow
>> width 2.
>>
>> I have also made a *TEC_2014_04.osm*
>> <http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/TEC/>, but to be used as an
>> alternating display.
>> That's because two osm layers are not designed to display at the same
>> time by JOSM.
>> But parts of it can be merged to any layer, e.g. to extract and
>> distribute à la tasking manager.
>> With JOSM, the tags of one TEC node can be very easily be copied and
>> pasted to an OSM node.
>> I made the following TEC => OSM tag conversion.
>> POT_NOM_HA => name
>> POT_ID => ref
>> POT_ZONE_T => zone
>> They are full of Osmose detectable or not mistakes with missing accents
>> on uppercase letters.
>>
>> Any comment welcome.
>> I'll make any improvement when the above bug will be fixed.
>>
>>  Please, do not batch import !
>>
>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data to Bing!
>> Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be more accurate than the
>> original data :-)
>>
>>  Import what?
>> We are certainly not going to replace OSM ways with TEC ways!
>> As to the bus stop nodes, at this place, they are on each side of the
>> crossing
>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1645537259#map=19/50.53943/5.65284>
>> but the TEC map locates them on the other, same side. The stop location is
>> rough and OSM puts it right in the shelter.
>> As to the name, I wrote the TEC in June 2012 that it is not "Heid des
>> Chênes" but "Haie des Chênes" and they still use the wrong name.
>>
>>  Généalogie du jeu de données
>>  Sélection manuelle de tronçons TomTom.
>> 4 attributs sont disponibles pour l'instant : le code de la ligne, le TEC
>> propriétaire, le numéro de la ligne et le nom de la ligne.
>>
>>  Should we suggest TEC to replace TomTom with OSM? ;-)
>>
>> SPW are epic!
>>
>> In sh'Allah ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>   André.
>>
>> On 2014-04-27 01:00, André Pirard wrote :
>>
>> On 2014-04-25 08:26, Julien Fastré wrote :
>>
>> Hi !
>>
>> Good news ! (Alleluia :-) )
>>
>> The TEC is publishing now data under Open Data Licence !
>>
>> On geoportail.wallonie.be, the data "Poteaux d'arrêts" (bus stop) and
>> "ligne de bus" (bus lines) are now under CC BY-SA 4.0 international
>> Licence :
>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=47676af7-aab3-4d2e-9c9c-cd86e7ad7241http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=a5dc5bc7-3c37-4783-9c41-27ce2f83f3ae
>>
>> The schedules are also available here :http://opendata.awt.be/organization/groupe-tec (in a "Belgian format"...
>> glups... I still haven't opened it yet).
>>
>> We are now allowed to import those data's in OSM.
>>
>>  Thanks Julien.
>> I'd gladly add this to my list of JOSM imagery sites but I see no WMS
>> configuration.
>> Is there a JOSM configuration?
>>
>> If I try to look at the Arcgis configuration you mention
>> http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer
>>  http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer
>> I get a 403 error.
>> How can it be used?
>>
>> Please, do not batch import !
>>
>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data to Bing!
>> Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be more accurate than the
>> original data :-)
>>
>> What about importing the data to a TEC.osm file, splitting this file into
>> pieces to distribute to volunteers that would use JOSM to overlay them on
>> top of OSM and other maps, rectify them subpiece by subpieces and move them
>> to the OSM layer to update? I see references to OSM import tasking
>> managers <https://www.google.be/#&q=osm+import+tasking+manager>.
>>
>> I'm glad to learn that the Walloon othophotos can be used to check,
>> understand and put right other maps.
>> I never fully understood the only phrase of their terms
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/mentions-legales.html> that seems to
>> apply to us.
>> What does "ligne graphique" mean?
>> Can a SPW map be used to rectify another SPW map? ;-)
>>
>> Beware of Bing! !!!  It has an offset error at high zoom in many places
>> responsible for many OSM imprecisions.
>> The recently mentioned Mapbox seems to have the same images as Bing! but
>> with a different offset.
>> I didn't check (yet) if it exhibits the same errors as Bing!
>>
>> At Champs Libres, we are planning to provide an online "comparator" from
>> TEC data to OSM data, using the old and new public transport schema. This
>> will allow to see where are missing bus stops, where they are mispelled,
>> etc. We will do it during May.
>>
>> If the SPW keeps not making a WMS server, what about making a Champs
>> Libres proxy serving WMS?
>> This would allow doing what you say together with OSM updates while
>> staying in the same JOSM window.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>   André.
>>
>>
>>
>
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