[OSM-talk-be] Is what we are doing useful

[Jakka]

André Pirard schreef op 28/04/2015 om 19:55:
> On 2015-04-28 17:53, Marc Gemis wrote :
>> Er wordt momenteel gewerkt aan een wiki pagina met de legende voor de
>> stardaard rendering op osm.org <http://osm.org>:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Standard_tile_layer
>>
>> At this moment people are creating a page with the legend for the
>> standard rendering on osm.org <http://osm.org>:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Standard_tile_layer
>>
>
> What is its intended usage and how does/will one find that page?
> This is good work and a possible companion to the Browsing Help page
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Browsing#Adding_a_Marker> I
> cooperated with.
> How to find places and features, how to move about, how to tell what you
> see.
>
> But it's only useful if map readers can find it.
> And *read below (attentively)* what can happen if one wishes the readers
> to find information.
> The work may be called a pile of hacky details, accreted nonsense etc.
>
> I opened a related paths and tracks renderings are indistinguishable
> <http://us.yhs4.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=paths+and+tracks+renderings+are+indistinguishable&fr=sfp&fr2=&type=__alt__ddc_linuxmint_com&hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-linuxmint&iscqry=>
> issue.
> And they still are.
> One particular point is that the map does not draw them like its key
> does (path under footway).
> This "layer" is like that key for paths and tracks, not like the map,
> not distinguishable, and I confess that I did not know that there are
> (so) many track renderings. Also surprised that no renderer mentioned
> that diversity.  The consensus was that the tracks must be a bit wider.
> But it's still work to do.
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Is what we are doing useful? (OSM.org map case)
> Date: 	Sun, 22 Mar 2015 01:42:34 +0100
> From: 	André Pirard
> <A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com>
> To: 	Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> CC: 	Aseerel4c26
> <m-476867-a7c16c at messages.openstreetmap.org>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I think that one good way to promote OSM is to teach the general public
> to make references to the main Map <http://www.openstreetmap.org>.
> I know persons writing to 100s of people who could write things like the
> rendezvous is here
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/5013364?mlat=48.85783&mlon=2.29513#map=18/48.85826/2.29478>.
> As well as webmasters, for example of Universities of which every
> building can be mapped in detail.
> Alas, they don't know well how to do that.
>
> So, very welcomed by its co-authors, I improved this section in the
> Browsing Help page
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Browsing#Adding_a_Marker>, some
> other parts of that page and the French translation. I showed that, and
> the writers were suddenly able to make links.
> They wondered why [the heck] that page is unfindable and is not
> highlighted as the help page of that map <http://www.openstreetmap.org>.
> Generally, a program has a Help button to help using it, and sometimes
> even a F1 key assignment.
>
> So, I made that request to openstreetmap-website
> <https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/871>.
> I received a one man's reply, without any discussion, closing the issue
> instantly and disregarding my reply.
> It amounts to saying that what I and the other contributors of that page
> have written is crap.
> "Full of all sorts of hacky low level details" (like the essentials to
> make a link to OSM.org).
> Furthermore, that opinion extends to links to other wiki pages "full of
> years works of ac[c]reted nonsense".
> In order of appearance,  "zoom and pinch" (
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:Multi-touch#Multi-touch_gestures>Wikipedia),
> "geolocation <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geolocation>",
> "Nominatim <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim>", "Mapping
> projects <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapping_projects>", "Cycle
> Map <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenCycleMap>", "Transport Map
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Transport_Map>", "MapQuest
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MapQuest> Open", "List of OSM-based
> services
> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM-based_services>", "Map
> Features <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features>",
> "Key:highway <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>", ...
> Finally, that OSM.org map <http://www.openstreetmap.org> would "not be
> intended for the end user" but "the target audience is mappers".
>
> All that in the frequent style that I call "not", disparaging what
> others did or think without a single constructive word about how to
> improve it or what it should be.
>
> I feel like being insulted instead of thanked (as well as many other
> persons).
>
> I have, of course, immediately stopped improving and translating the
> OpenStreetMap documentation.
> And I, who spent much time tagging, like the boundaries of south
> Belgium, feel very much like stopping to participate to OSM entirely.
>
> You may want to add your comments to that issue.
>
> Best regards,
>
> André.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
  @ André,

Of course I (we, newbies, visitors) need a lot of good help files to 
have a good feeling over what is going on before starting to contribute 
or even to use, explore the existing programs. To understand the meaning 
of program and that it is worth to continuing to use it. Not easy to 
find guides, walking true wiki. So why not put everywhere a help button 
or ? icon in the appropriate program legend(s)
Thanks to all those who update frequently the wiki's we all need them.

Jakka