[OSM-talk-be] Some information about Nominatim for addresses in Brussels

[Glenn Plas]

Hi,

I managed to fix everything in Brussels (inside small ring with some
margin).  Some interesting thing's I've seen like Accents on capital
letters (there should be none) and more exotic characters. Spelling
mistakes (double ss vs. single s. is common in dutch names)

Just wrote this check to help myself :) I have no clue how Osmose checks
are supposed to be made.  This is a .osm file based validation tool, so
you can use it while making JOSM edits.

There is one case in particular I believe is quite a challenge. It's
documented with screenshots here
https://github.com/gplv2/urbis-validate#problematic-street

Depending on which city you are in (Etterbeek, Bxl etc) there are
sometimes minor variations in some street names depending where it's
located.  You need to use the borders to make sure.

One particular case that I could not immediately solve is the problem
with this street(s):

'Rue de la Grosse Tour - Wollendriestoren' and 'Rue de la Grosse Tour -
Wollendriestorenstraat' . Both exist depending on the side you are. But
there is only 1 road.  The french name is the same btw!

When driving this street, on your left you have 1050 / Ixelles - Elsene
and on your right side 1000 / Bruxelles - Brussel

JOSM validator doesn't like the second associated street I made to
indicate this. Also, the common way name:left and name:right doesn't
make a change but I find this awkward since we already use name:nl and
name:fr.   Then there is the problem with the format of 'name' itself.
Usually when a road has 2 names, both names also go into this field with
a dash.  Example of this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16752454/

We already do this for both names, I think I am starting understand why
Sarah doesn't like this solution.

Glenn


On 28-09-16 21:17, Bessières, Marc wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> At SOTM, I followed an Osmose workshop, and he mentioned that Morocco
> also has bilingual names.
> 
> So maybe this check should be added to Osmose? So others can benefit
> from it, and also it is run regularly.
> 
> If you all agree, I can make a github issue for that?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marc
> 
>  
> 
> Le 2016-09-28 17:55, Glenn Plas a écrit :
> 
>> Made a tool to check, quite interesting results ....
>>
>> https://github.com/gplv2/urbis-validate
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 28-09-16 05:30, Marc Gemis wrote:
>>> From the Swiss mailing list:
>>>
>>> Sarah Hoffmann (Nominatim dev) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Raphael Das Gupta wrote
>>>> Da das für Nominatim in Brüssel funktioniert
>>>> (osm.org/search?query=Koningsstraat,+Brussel &
>>>> osm.org/search?query=Rue+Royale,+Bruxelles scheinen die gleichen
>>>> Ergebnisse zu liefern) nehme ich an, dass das diesbezüglich für die
>>>> Schweiz auch kein Problem sein sollte.
>>>
>>> Im grossen unde ganzen funktioniert das so ganz gut. Wirklich glücklich
>>> bin ich über die mit Minus getrennten Namen nicht, aber es ist leider
>>> zur Zeit die einzig praktikable Lösung, damit die Namen einigermassen
>>> vernünftig auf der Karte erscheinen. Wichtig ist, dass man sich auf
>>> die Sprachreihenfolge einigt. Es gab da in Belgien gelegentlich
>>> Uneinigkeit und dann haben Leute einfach die Namen im name-Tag umgedreht,
>>> aber die addr:street-Tags in der alten Reihenfolge belassen. Dann
>>> funktioniert die Zuordnung natürlich nicht mehr richtig, weil Nominatim
>>> dumm ist und nicht weiss, dass das Minus zwei Namen trennt.
>>>
>>> Brief translation:
>>> She is not too happy about names with dashes, but it is the only
>>> possibility to have both names on the map. The problem is when the
>>> addr:street tag has a different order than the name tag on the street,
>>> the Nominatim algorithm gets broken.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nominatim seems to use the addr:street tag to find the street and
>>> takes the translated name from there. It can find the street by
>>> matching the addr:street tag to name or any name:XX on the street, but
>>> the match with name is preferred.
>>>
>>> Sarah wrote
>>>
>>>> "Eine Straße mit dem angegebenen Namen" ist als name-Tag eines als
>>>> highway <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=* getaggten
>>>> ways zu verstehen.
>>>
>>> Genau so handhabt das auch Nominatim (die Suchmaschine von osm.org).
>>> Wenn es eine Adresse zusammensetzt, benutzt es addr:street nur, um
>>> die entsprechende Strasse zu finden. Der Name selbst kommt dann
>>> tatsächlich von den Tags an der Strasse.
>>>
>>> Sprich, name:de, name:fr, name:it etc sollten auf jeden Fall
>>> an die Strasse. An der Adresse muss nur ein addr:street, wo
>>> vorzugsweise das gleiche wie im name-Tag steht, aber auch eine
>>> der Sprachvarianten funktioniert. Dann kann die Adresse in jeder
>>> Sprachvariante gefunden werden.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope this piece information helps you understand Nominatim a bit
>>> better and perhaps someone will clean up the mismatches.
>>>
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> m
>>>
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>>> Talk-be at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-be at openstreetmap.org>
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>
>>
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>  
> 
>