[OSM-talk-be] Weekly Riot chat digest - Volume 1 - 10/12/2018 - 16/12/2018

Julien Fastré julien at fastre.info
Mon Dec 17 20:16:37 UTC 2018


Very nice idea ! I do not have time to track discussions on riot, but I
will be glad to have a summary somewhere else !

Julien Fastré

Le 17/12/18 à 18:42, Steven Clays a écrit :
> Wow, nice work. Very efficient. I hope you can keep this up!
> 
> Op ma 17 dec. 2018 om 11:47 schreef Tim Couwelier
> <tim.couwelier at gmail.com <mailto:tim.couwelier at gmail.com>>:
> 
>     First of all, a short introduction. Based on discussion in chat, we
>     feel it'd be good to open up about what's discussed in the Riot (or
>     IRC) chat channel, and distribute a summary of it (on a weekly
>     basis) through forum and mailinglist. For now this is a
>     one-man-operation, we'll see how it evolves over time.
> 
>     Input/feedback/extended discussion can be had through talk-be, the
>     riot channel or the belgian subsection of the openstreetmap.org
>     <http://openstreetmap.org> fora.
> 
>     (Note: I'm fully aware I'm probably a highly 'unknown' person to
>     many people within this mailinglist. I've talked through trying to
>     do this with Joost, and was met with his approval. If anyone has
>     questions about me or my part in this, do let me know.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     *_Monday 10/12/2018_*
> 
>     Glenn informs about how to map a 'tractorsluis' (physical
>     construction to allow tractors to pass, but not normal cars).
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dsump_buster
> 
>     bxl-forever asks about how to map a certain type of barrier/fence.
>     fence_type = railing seems the best fit
>     (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fence_type)
> 
>     Seppe points out there's a Mapillary grant program for camera's.
>     Requires 50k+ uploaded pictures to be taken into consideration. 
>     https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScrPJcRGlh_FQCQCuZkk0tCK9317odk5RYeYfI2UruCzJW31Q/viewform
> 
>     Jakka suggests supplying a basic simple template using osm-be tiles
>     to implement a map into a website.
>     Most agree this would be good, issue created on the osmbe-website
>     github.
> 
> 
>     *_Tuesday 11/12/2018_*
> 
>     Timcouwelier points out tiles are loading very slow,.
>     Escada confirms there's indeed issues, linking to the status page
>     (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Platform_Status)
> 
>     Jakka asks about how to map mobil telephone antennae attached to
>     power towers.
>     Lionel_giard replies /'you only use
>     communication:mobile_phone/radio/...=yes/no for the transmission
>     equipment. The others tags are all for the structure. '/
> 
> 
>     *_Wednesday 12/12/2018_*
> 
>     Timcouwelier asks about tagging suggestions for an entrace ramp to a
>     hospital with an overhead roof.
>     Tagging as a bridge seems an option, but would not match with using
>     'tunnel' for the covered part under the building + it's rendered
>     overly heavy. Consensus is to split the ramp and mark an  'incline =
>     up' and 'incline = down', but to not  add percentage as it's unknown.
>     https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/incline#valuesapparantly
>     shows 2 uses for 'incline = steep_as_hell'
> 
>     Lionel_giard ask about how to map an 'internaat' (living quarters at
>     school for students not going home during the week).
>     This is a recurring question, but there's nothing beyond building =
>     residential. However, it should still clarify sufficient in
>     combination with amenity = school around it.
> 
>     Timcouwelier asks about options in Overpass Turbo: building on a
>     query that selects all ways based on having a node last touched by a
>     given user, is there an option to do that for TWO users and style
>     them differently?
>     Joost offers a workaround through mapcontrib, by using two layers
>     with a different query, and working with two different styles.
> 
>     s8evq asks about possible missing attribution to OSM in the maps
>     used by postnl.be <http://postnl.be>. 
>     Contact is made based on the following input by Joost:
>     /    If you want to deal with it yourself, add it to this list and
>     write them a message:
>     //https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Websites#List_2/
> 
>     A reply from wegspotter to a question by Glenn on 'slow roads',
>     raises discussion on how to deal with getting 'complete' info, as
>     the requirements for the vicinal ref (
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads)
>     requires info that's not visible possible to retrieve in the field.
> 
>     *_Thursday 13/12/2018_*
> 
>     Discussion on the vicinal roads continues.
>     Neither atlas number, the vicinal_type (sentier vs chemin) can be
>     found without external sources.
>     Tim re-links the WMS for the atlas for most provinces, but before
>     editing them into the wiki, Joost plans to check to what extent they
>     are 'within license' to use as a source. Suggestion is made (by
>     himself) to remind him from time to time not to forget about this.
> 
>     Discussion on the wiki status for the vicinal road tagging, raises
>     issues about communication of such wiki edits, where escada points
>     out ideally issues like that should get picked up either in riot
>     channel or through the mailing list. Timcouwelier adds that ideally,
>     to keep discussion / progress / knowledge / information spread
>     widely, it'd probably be a good idea to created a weekly digest of
>     what's discussed in the riot channel, both for later reference but
>     also to open up the discussions with those not actively reading the
>     channel.
> 
>     That in mind, timcouwelier creates a framapad to start taking notes
>     for a weekly digest, to be sent to talk-be, and writes up a first
>     prelimary version for this week.
> 
>     Lionel_giard asks about rendering status - it's still down, and
>     there seem to be more issues with the Amsterdam tileserver.
> 
>     Juminet announces an OpenStreetMap Arlon meetup 
>     (https://www.meetup.com/nl-NL/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/257183572/)
>     and informs about adding it to the osm-be calendar and maptime, or
>     to be told how to do it. It appears creating a PR (pull request)
>     here gets the job done:  
>     https://github.com/osmbe/website/tree/master/_posts/events
> 
>     Joost suggests a revert of changes by this user:
>     https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NTSB/and asks for assistance in
>     doing so. Midgard helps out.
> 
>     Suggestion is made that - if tileservers remain having issues -
>     osm-be or osm-fr tiles can be used, which in turn raises questions
>     on their update frequency. Jonathan explains that currently the
>     osm-be tiles are updated approximately once a month, but the process
>     (mostly starting/stopping) the rendering server is a manual process.
>     He intends to keep a closer watch in 2019, to shorten update cycles.
> 
>     Jakka points out there's a new source of incoming 'notes', generated
>     through http://amenagements-cyclables.fr/fr/contributions/5871,
>     often low quality. Joost will try to get in touch with the app devs. 
>     As a side question, Tim asks where Jakka tracks notes (through a map
>     or a feed). Jakka responds with his source feed
>     (http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Belgium)
> 
>     *_Friday 14/12/2018_*
> 
>     Tim has contacted the city of Roeselare to point out their google
>     maps 'map page' isn't working, suggesting the use of OSM instead.
> 
>     The discussion on vicinal roads continues, with some background on
>     them, legal status and such.  Tagging should be tackled on two
>     levels: the 'designation' tag and the tags for the vicinal roads.
> 
>     For designation, wegspotter proposes this:
>         
>     So for designation in Flanders & Brussels, we have basically 3
>     statutes. 
> 
>       * /designation=vicinal_road/(it appears in the atlas or in
>         modifiyng documents)
> 
>       * /designation=communal_road_ss/(it is property of the
>         municipality & it is destinied for public use & it does not
>         appear in the atlas of vicinal roads)
> 
>       * /designation=right_of_way_ss /(it is a public right of way, but
>         does not show up in the atlas of vicinal roads
> 
>     In Wallonia, you only have one category designation=communal_road
>     (without the ss, since the Flemish/Brussels situation is stricter
> 
> 
>     By extension, for the vicinal roads we'd come to this: (based on an
>     example picture by escada)
> 
>       * /name = Speecaertweg/
> 
>       * /vicinal_ref = Voetweg 44 /(yes with the Voetweg --> because we
>         also add N/A/E)
> 
>       * /official_vicinal_ref/= SMB_44_1 (usually the ref that can only
>         be found in documents, gets 'official', there is already an
>         official_name and official_ref that have the same purpose).
> 
>       * /designation=vicinal/(Flanders) or /designation /= communal
>         (Wallonia)l.
> 
> 
>     Plan of action is for wegspotter to make the required wiki edits for
>     the vicinal roads tagging scheme, communicatie / discuss through
>     riot/forum/talk-be mailing and then start applying it. As a second
>     stage, an attempt can be made to formalise the /designation =
>     */tagging on a wider level, but to not let that hold back the
>     (smaller) argument on how we tag vicinal roads in belgium. Escada
>     refers to his imagery available for demo images to implement in the
>     wiki, pietervdvn explains how to use the images in wiki edits.
> 
>     Related to the argument, Wegspotter also shared a document on slow
>     roads / vicinal roads and their (legal) statuses.
> 
>     Pietervdvn informs he's hosting a session with Westtoer (provincial
>     tourism agency for West-Flanders), and asks if any topics in
>     specific should be stressed towards this target group. Tim points
>     out that 'ensuring the source data they proces is within license for
>     using for OSM'.
> 
>     Some discussion is raised on 'duplicate tagging', more specifically
>     'manually adding tags for something that is implicitly a consequence
>     of other tags'. Glen refers to this page: (
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Belgium)
>     and points out only that given the rules have some
>     /implicit/consequences, you should only map the exceptions through
>     /explicit/tagging.
> 
>     Wegspotter asks if 'tracktype' can also be applied to paths. It's
>     countered tracktype should be considered strictly for use on 'tracks'.
> 
>     Tim asks about tagging suggestions for an indoor building for sports.
>     Doudou suggests leisure = sports_centre, escada suggests building =
>     sports_hall (as the latter implies more directly to the building
>     rather then the broader site)
> 
>     Some tracing back to earlier discussions on street names happens:
>     - Joost received feedback on the spelling over Breeërweg  (which is
>     in GRB as Breeerweg). They agree it's technically incorrect, but
>     that is like that officially and the municipality sticks to it, so
>     they follow that version.
>     - Reference is made to the equally (technically incorrect) spelling
>     for street names in Vilvoorde, which in GRB have a different format
>     then what ground truth (street signs) show.
>     Suggestion is for those cases to add a/note="the name is not the
>     official name but we chose to following street names as used on
>     traffic signs, not the official notation" . /Note: as this point
>     that is merely a suggestion.
> 
> 
>     *_Saturday 17/12/2018_*
> 
>     Escada picks up on a question from Joost the night before:
>     /adding access=no to a highway=cycleway that has bicylce=yes: that
>     seems unwanted, no? /
>     His reply refers to
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Belgiumand
>     states that mostly the difference you can have, tends to be in the
>     nature of mopeds being 'permissive' or not.
>     Jakka adds to it by suggestion to stick to moped_a, moped_b and
>     moped_p as keys rather then their capitalized versions. Normally the
>     use of capital letters is restricted to where names require them.
> 
>     Wegspotter refers to having updated this page:
>      https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads&wteswitched=1#Trage_wegen_Inventoryand
>     suggest proofreading / input.
>      As a side point, rendering of tracks based on access types gets
>     discussed.  Escada adds that to this day, the default rendering is
>     mostly car-oriënted, but that the location to make suggestions is
>     here:  https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.
>     He also links to two related issues.
>      
>      Joost announces having been elected into the OSMF board, with a
>     round of congratulations all around to celebrate the news. Some
>     discussion about the voting (and the nature of the voting system
>     used here, and other systems in other contexts) follows. 
>      
>      Ubipo asks for help with turn lane relations and the JOSM plugin
>     for it. Midgard replies it's not common practice in Belgium to use
>     them, as we go for /turn:lanes /tagging. Given ubipo was mostly
>     trying to fix the broken relation, and the suggested tagging is in
>     place, the relation gets removed.
>      
>      
>     *_Sunday 18/12/2018_*
> 
>     Jakka asks about ta default mail template to point out missing
>     attribution in webpages, given it's lacking
>     here://https://vrijeparking.be/vindparking. s8evq points here:
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Joost_schouppe/Coprightbrieven#Gouden_Gids,
>     and Jakka sent the e-mail.
> 
>     Joost asks about these marker stones he found in Hallerbos (
>     https://photos.app.goo.gl/eHuqsztJJoSg1GMh9), which he assumes to be
>     old border marker stones. No input is given beyond 'that's what we
>     would get as well'
> 
>     Escada points out he's having issues with user BHiko's work. It
>     looks like it's a (manual) import of data for networks found through
>     knooppuntnet, and in the proces deleting/replacing network data
>     known to be correct. The user seems however difficult to reach, so
>     if anyone has a somewhat direct line to the person, please let us
>     know. Requesting a block through DWG is at this point an option to
>     consider.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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