[OSM-talk-be] Weekly Riot chat digest - Volume 1 - 10/12/2018 - 16/12/2018
Julien Fastré
julien at fastre.info
Mon Dec 17 20:16:37 UTC 2018
Very nice idea ! I do not have time to track discussions on riot, but I
will be glad to have a summary somewhere else !
Julien Fastré
Le 17/12/18 à 18:42, Steven Clays a écrit :
> Wow, nice work. Very efficient. I hope you can keep this up!
>
> Op ma 17 dec. 2018 om 11:47 schreef Tim Couwelier
> <tim.couwelier at gmail.com <mailto:tim.couwelier at gmail.com>>:
>
> First of all, a short introduction. Based on discussion in chat, we
> feel it'd be good to open up about what's discussed in the Riot (or
> IRC) chat channel, and distribute a summary of it (on a weekly
> basis) through forum and mailinglist. For now this is a
> one-man-operation, we'll see how it evolves over time.
>
> Input/feedback/extended discussion can be had through talk-be, the
> riot channel or the belgian subsection of the openstreetmap.org
> <http://openstreetmap.org> fora.
>
> (Note: I'm fully aware I'm probably a highly 'unknown' person to
> many people within this mailinglist. I've talked through trying to
> do this with Joost, and was met with his approval. If anyone has
> questions about me or my part in this, do let me know.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *_Monday 10/12/2018_*
>
> Glenn informs about how to map a 'tractorsluis' (physical
> construction to allow tractors to pass, but not normal cars).
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier%3Dsump_buster
>
> bxl-forever asks about how to map a certain type of barrier/fence.
> fence_type = railing seems the best fit
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fence_type)
>
> Seppe points out there's a Mapillary grant program for camera's.
> Requires 50k+ uploaded pictures to be taken into consideration.
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScrPJcRGlh_FQCQCuZkk0tCK9317odk5RYeYfI2UruCzJW31Q/viewform
>
> Jakka suggests supplying a basic simple template using osm-be tiles
> to implement a map into a website.
> Most agree this would be good, issue created on the osmbe-website
> github.
>
>
> *_Tuesday 11/12/2018_*
>
> Timcouwelier points out tiles are loading very slow,.
> Escada confirms there's indeed issues, linking to the status page
> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Platform_Status)
>
> Jakka asks about how to map mobil telephone antennae attached to
> power towers.
> Lionel_giard replies /'you only use
> communication:mobile_phone/radio/...=yes/no for the transmission
> equipment. The others tags are all for the structure. '/
>
>
> *_Wednesday 12/12/2018_*
>
> Timcouwelier asks about tagging suggestions for an entrace ramp to a
> hospital with an overhead roof.
> Tagging as a bridge seems an option, but would not match with using
> 'tunnel' for the covered part under the building + it's rendered
> overly heavy. Consensus is to split the ramp and mark an 'incline =
> up' and 'incline = down', but to not add percentage as it's unknown.
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/incline#valuesapparantly
> shows 2 uses for 'incline = steep_as_hell'
>
> Lionel_giard ask about how to map an 'internaat' (living quarters at
> school for students not going home during the week).
> This is a recurring question, but there's nothing beyond building =
> residential. However, it should still clarify sufficient in
> combination with amenity = school around it.
>
> Timcouwelier asks about options in Overpass Turbo: building on a
> query that selects all ways based on having a node last touched by a
> given user, is there an option to do that for TWO users and style
> them differently?
> Joost offers a workaround through mapcontrib, by using two layers
> with a different query, and working with two different styles.
>
> s8evq asks about possible missing attribution to OSM in the maps
> used by postnl.be <http://postnl.be>.
> Contact is made based on the following input by Joost:
> / If you want to deal with it yourself, add it to this list and
> write them a message:
> //https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Websites#List_2/
>
> A reply from wegspotter to a question by Glenn on 'slow roads',
> raises discussion on how to deal with getting 'complete' info, as
> the requirements for the vicinal ref (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads)
> requires info that's not visible possible to retrieve in the field.
>
> *_Thursday 13/12/2018_*
>
> Discussion on the vicinal roads continues.
> Neither atlas number, the vicinal_type (sentier vs chemin) can be
> found without external sources.
> Tim re-links the WMS for the atlas for most provinces, but before
> editing them into the wiki, Joost plans to check to what extent they
> are 'within license' to use as a source. Suggestion is made (by
> himself) to remind him from time to time not to forget about this.
>
> Discussion on the wiki status for the vicinal road tagging, raises
> issues about communication of such wiki edits, where escada points
> out ideally issues like that should get picked up either in riot
> channel or through the mailing list. Timcouwelier adds that ideally,
> to keep discussion / progress / knowledge / information spread
> widely, it'd probably be a good idea to created a weekly digest of
> what's discussed in the riot channel, both for later reference but
> also to open up the discussions with those not actively reading the
> channel.
>
> That in mind, timcouwelier creates a framapad to start taking notes
> for a weekly digest, to be sent to talk-be, and writes up a first
> prelimary version for this week.
>
> Lionel_giard asks about rendering status - it's still down, and
> there seem to be more issues with the Amsterdam tileserver.
>
> Juminet announces an OpenStreetMap Arlon meetup
> (https://www.meetup.com/nl-NL/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/events/257183572/)
> and informs about adding it to the osm-be calendar and maptime, or
> to be told how to do it. It appears creating a PR (pull request)
> here gets the job done:
> https://github.com/osmbe/website/tree/master/_posts/events
>
> Joost suggests a revert of changes by this user:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NTSB/and asks for assistance in
> doing so. Midgard helps out.
>
> Suggestion is made that - if tileservers remain having issues -
> osm-be or osm-fr tiles can be used, which in turn raises questions
> on their update frequency. Jonathan explains that currently the
> osm-be tiles are updated approximately once a month, but the process
> (mostly starting/stopping) the rendering server is a manual process.
> He intends to keep a closer watch in 2019, to shorten update cycles.
>
> Jakka points out there's a new source of incoming 'notes', generated
> through http://amenagements-cyclables.fr/fr/contributions/5871,
> often low quality. Joost will try to get in touch with the app devs.
> As a side question, Tim asks where Jakka tracks notes (through a map
> or a feed). Jakka responds with his source feed
> (http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Belgium)
>
> *_Friday 14/12/2018_*
>
> Tim has contacted the city of Roeselare to point out their google
> maps 'map page' isn't working, suggesting the use of OSM instead.
>
> The discussion on vicinal roads continues, with some background on
> them, legal status and such. Tagging should be tackled on two
> levels: the 'designation' tag and the tags for the vicinal roads.
>
> For designation, wegspotter proposes this:
>
> So for designation in Flanders & Brussels, we have basically 3
> statutes.
>
> * /designation=vicinal_road/(it appears in the atlas or in
> modifiyng documents)
>
> * /designation=communal_road_ss/(it is property of the
> municipality & it is destinied for public use & it does not
> appear in the atlas of vicinal roads)
>
> * /designation=right_of_way_ss /(it is a public right of way, but
> does not show up in the atlas of vicinal roads
>
> In Wallonia, you only have one category designation=communal_road
> (without the ss, since the Flemish/Brussels situation is stricter
>
>
> By extension, for the vicinal roads we'd come to this: (based on an
> example picture by escada)
>
> * /name = Speecaertweg/
>
> * /vicinal_ref = Voetweg 44 /(yes with the Voetweg --> because we
> also add N/A/E)
>
> * /official_vicinal_ref/= SMB_44_1 (usually the ref that can only
> be found in documents, gets 'official', there is already an
> official_name and official_ref that have the same purpose).
>
> * /designation=vicinal/(Flanders) or /designation /= communal
> (Wallonia)l.
>
>
> Plan of action is for wegspotter to make the required wiki edits for
> the vicinal roads tagging scheme, communicatie / discuss through
> riot/forum/talk-be mailing and then start applying it. As a second
> stage, an attempt can be made to formalise the /designation =
> */tagging on a wider level, but to not let that hold back the
> (smaller) argument on how we tag vicinal roads in belgium. Escada
> refers to his imagery available for demo images to implement in the
> wiki, pietervdvn explains how to use the images in wiki edits.
>
> Related to the argument, Wegspotter also shared a document on slow
> roads / vicinal roads and their (legal) statuses.
>
> Pietervdvn informs he's hosting a session with Westtoer (provincial
> tourism agency for West-Flanders), and asks if any topics in
> specific should be stressed towards this target group. Tim points
> out that 'ensuring the source data they proces is within license for
> using for OSM'.
>
> Some discussion is raised on 'duplicate tagging', more specifically
> 'manually adding tags for something that is implicitly a consequence
> of other tags'. Glen refers to this page: (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Belgium)
> and points out only that given the rules have some
> /implicit/consequences, you should only map the exceptions through
> /explicit/tagging.
>
> Wegspotter asks if 'tracktype' can also be applied to paths. It's
> countered tracktype should be considered strictly for use on 'tracks'.
>
> Tim asks about tagging suggestions for an indoor building for sports.
> Doudou suggests leisure = sports_centre, escada suggests building =
> sports_hall (as the latter implies more directly to the building
> rather then the broader site)
>
> Some tracing back to earlier discussions on street names happens:
> - Joost received feedback on the spelling over Breeërweg (which is
> in GRB as Breeerweg). They agree it's technically incorrect, but
> that is like that officially and the municipality sticks to it, so
> they follow that version.
> - Reference is made to the equally (technically incorrect) spelling
> for street names in Vilvoorde, which in GRB have a different format
> then what ground truth (street signs) show.
> Suggestion is for those cases to add a/note="the name is not the
> official name but we chose to following street names as used on
> traffic signs, not the official notation" . /Note: as this point
> that is merely a suggestion.
>
>
> *_Saturday 17/12/2018_*
>
> Escada picks up on a question from Joost the night before:
> /adding access=no to a highway=cycleway that has bicylce=yes: that
> seems unwanted, no? /
> His reply refers to
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Belgiumand
> states that mostly the difference you can have, tends to be in the
> nature of mopeds being 'permissive' or not.
> Jakka adds to it by suggestion to stick to moped_a, moped_b and
> moped_p as keys rather then their capitalized versions. Normally the
> use of capital letters is restricted to where names require them.
>
> Wegspotter refers to having updated this page:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Slowroads&wteswitched=1#Trage_wegen_Inventoryand
> suggest proofreading / input.
> As a side point, rendering of tracks based on access types gets
> discussed. Escada adds that to this day, the default rendering is
> mostly car-oriënted, but that the location to make suggestions is
> here: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues.
> He also links to two related issues.
>
> Joost announces having been elected into the OSMF board, with a
> round of congratulations all around to celebrate the news. Some
> discussion about the voting (and the nature of the voting system
> used here, and other systems in other contexts) follows.
>
> Ubipo asks for help with turn lane relations and the JOSM plugin
> for it. Midgard replies it's not common practice in Belgium to use
> them, as we go for /turn:lanes /tagging. Given ubipo was mostly
> trying to fix the broken relation, and the suggested tagging is in
> place, the relation gets removed.
>
>
> *_Sunday 18/12/2018_*
>
> Jakka asks about ta default mail template to point out missing
> attribution in webpages, given it's lacking
> here://https://vrijeparking.be/vindparking. s8evq points here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Joost_schouppe/Coprightbrieven#Gouden_Gids,
> and Jakka sent the e-mail.
>
> Joost asks about these marker stones he found in Hallerbos (
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/eHuqsztJJoSg1GMh9), which he assumes to be
> old border marker stones. No input is given beyond 'that's what we
> would get as well'
>
> Escada points out he's having issues with user BHiko's work. It
> looks like it's a (manual) import of data for networks found through
> knooppuntnet, and in the proces deleting/replacing network data
> known to be correct. The user seems however difficult to reach, so
> if anyone has a somewhat direct line to the person, please let us
> know. Requesting a block through DWG is at this point an option to
> consider.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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