[OSM-talk-be] RFC: explicit tagging of 'Jaagpaden'

[Stijn Rombauts]

 Hi,
'Jaagpaden' are not always paved roads. Often compacted, gravel, earthen, grassy, ... roads/tracks and then highway=track seems a better choice. Sometimes the only thing that's left is just a path. Then the tag service=towpath is rather odd. I use description=jaagpad.And what about similar roads which usually have the same access restrictions but are called 'haven' or 'havengebied' instead of 'jaagpad'?
Regards,
StijnRR


    Op dinsdag 3 maart 2020 16:28:46 CET schreef Pieter Vander Vennet <pietervdvn at posteo.net>:  
 
 Hey Marc,

Thanks for your response.

IMHO all towpaths are indeed peculiar service roads, thus
'highway=service' + 'service=towpath'. The wiki even mentions explicitly
that it should be a service road.

The examples you sent are excellent examples where the legal signposting
didn't catch up with the historic usage. These clearly used to be
towpath but they didn't gain the legal recognition of a 'jaagpad'.
Personally, I would tag those with 'service=towpath' (reflecting the
historic usage) but not with 'towpath=yes', but this is very subject to
change. We might even consider `towpath=no` (with a note clarifying this
is legally _not_ a 'jaagpad') or `legal:towpath=no` or something similar.

Another thought: if we are about using 'towpath=yes' to reflect the
legal status, I'm doubting that there is no better tag scheme for this.


Kind regards, Pieter


On 03.03.20 16:12, Marc Gemis wrote:
> I'm fine with explicitly mapping them.
> Isn't service=towpath strange on a way that is not tagged as
> highway=service? (but you know that I think they should have been
> mapped as highway=service in the first place, but this is not the
> case)
>
> So it's meant for all those that are explicitly signed as "Jaagpad"
> and not for any others? So this
> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/3T0U_uBJxNXHfrgwdztQDQ is not a
> Jaagpad? (a bit further
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=51.05439739997222&lng=4.4334043&z=17&focus=photo&pKey=cmVJ5z_VXnZqwsdrEK0aHw
> , but that still does not make it a Jaadpad?)
>
> m.
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 2:14 PM Pieter Vander Vennet
> <pietervdvn at posteo.net> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Even though the legal restrictions of 'Jaagpaden' (towpaths in proper English) is already described in detail on the wiki, it would still be useful to reflect the special status explicitly, in our case to give a comfort bonus in cycling route planning but also for historical purposes.
>>
>> For context, a 'jaagpad', 'trekpad' or towing path is a path that used to be used to (literally) tow boats through the canals, either with manpower or horsepower and a rope attached to the boat - hence there are never trees between a towpath.
>>
>> With the rise of cheap and powerful combustion engines, this practice became disused and towpaths became service roads and cycleways.
>>
>> As stated, these often are excellent and heavily preferred by cyclists. Normally, they are wide, asphalted, there are very few cars and especially: there is the very nice scenery of the canal.
>>
>> Therefore, I would propose to introduce tagging in Belgium to tag towpaths.
>>
>>
>> There are two ways to achieve this:
>>
>> - A towpath is typically a specific type of service road, so we can add `service=towpath`
>>
>> - In the UK, the towpaths are tagged with `towpath=yes`
>>
>> Note that towpaths in Flanders are mostly signposted with an official sign, even though that this is a bit of a legal remnant of a previous era. However, it makes it very explicit and thus unambiguous to map.
>>
>> But now, for the serious questions:
>>
>> - what are your thoughts of mapping them somehow? IMHO it is an added value and I'm quite in favour of them.
>>
>> - What is the best way of mapping them? I'm a bit on the edge of the options above: `service=towpath` is IMHO semantically the most correct form, as it indicates that it is a service road originally built for towing. `towpath=yes` reeks more of the legal status (i.e. having a formal road sign indicating 'jaagpad'). The latter has the advantage of already being in use in the UK with over 3500 instances according to taginfo. service=towpath is not in use at the moment.
>>
>>
>> PS: fun etymological fact: the English verb 'to tow' is derived from the Dutch word for rope: 'touw'
>>
>> --
>> Met vriendelijke groeten,
>> Pieter Vander Vennet
>>
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-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,
Pieter Vander Vennet
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