[Talk-ca] GeoBase import more questions and ideas

Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com
Thu Jan 1 11:49:35 GMT 2009

Hi Dale, in answer to the other questions;

I have a question to throw out there...

> Can someone point me to an API or tutorial or something for OSM that
discusses uploading manipulating the data (in a way that could be scripted)?
I've seen the web interface, but obviously that is no good for this kind of
thing unless one wants to spend days in front of the computer doing this.

We have the dev at openstreetmap.org discussion list, which is for all the
developers of openstreetmap back-end, as its rather complex, only some
people REALLY understand how it works.

if you haven't already done so, the wiki page,

Should help a bit, as it shows a mashup of the whole OpenStreetMap Project.

Whats cool about the OpenStreetMap project is that it's a whole bunch of
people who are all working at the project all at the same time, making for
less work for each individual user.  So each program that gets made, gets
added to the repository so then others can copy bits of code from other
programs, to make a much better program.

> I'm of the impression that there are:

> a) a set of built in 'tags' that the rendering engine uses. (is there an
exhaustive list anywhere)

b) that the user can extend these tags to include custom information

c) that there exists an API for interacting with the database.

The tagging standards are always debated, and improved.  There is a file
somewhere which contains all the most used OSM map features  (put just cant
find the link)

And there is no limit on the amount of custom information people want to add
on the tags.
and for the API ...
on the dev at openstreetmap.org discussion list are those folks who know how to
deal with it.

Seeing as how you were able to convert the raw GeoBase data into Garmin
format, there got to be a way to convert that post-IMG file you created to
OSM format, using what you already created.
User: Steve Ratcliffe
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AcousticNewt> made
that program so maybe he can be of assistance.

> Wouldn't the most sensible way to add information be to take the original
SHPs and go from there? (including *all* of the database information).

Would you be able to explain HOW you imported all the data to your base
(You said that it's pritty much all in the script routeen.)

If your able to post what your Raw scripting was/is ... then the other users
in the community would be able to modify it.
As right now, were just working from scratch, trying to figure out this
geobase monster,
So then when looking to figure out what data is actually available, we have
something to work with,
(obviously, getting the latest information possible is important too)

Since you already made up your own GeoBase2garminIMG conversion chart/list,
it would really help if we could see this chart.

As yes, it would make sense that the import script is able to;
1 - download all the GeoBase/Geogratis data for that tile area.
2 - attach all the Geobase:source tags needed
3 - attach all the OSM map feature types to the data
4 - be able to import it all in bulk or just select certain Geobase features
to import.

So far, as we saw Michel Gilbert has been able to;
get the shape files; attach source tags; attach the OSM map feature, and
import it.

The python script is here
so far it's just the NRN thats been added, and i think it's Jason Reid who
did that scripting work. (so far)

It would be great to add on your chart you used when grabbing GeoBase data,
so the work wont be duplicated.
Then we (the talk-ca list) can work on the hardest part;   Agreeing to how
the stuff should be tagged, so then it will get rendered right. ... the 1st

The reason i suggest grabbing the data direct from the .mp file or (combined
shapesfile) is that it's only with GPSMapEdit that the user could;
1 simply go through it and select only 1 map element,
2 delete the rest of it (reverse selection - delete)
3 then save the file as a new .mp file,
4 use the mp2osm program to convert the file for OSM
5 open up JOSM .. .and open that modified .mp file to check and remove any
unwanted data.. then upload the changes.

The DOWNSIDE of this 5 step process is that it DOES NOT keep the geobase NID
BUT the UPSIDE  of this process is that it keeps all the existing OSM data
and the other upside is that many types of data can be imported in 1 go.
... ie... everything (as well as the Roads) can be imported. .. and the user
can square off the downtown core, and single out only specific map features
that they want.
(attaching the tag from:geobase)

So ...if people like the above idea.. the TODO would be to update the mp2osm
program to show  how to convert it (if not done so already)

Hope that helps,
Sam Vekemans
Across Canada Trails

in response to the 2nd messages before i send this.

Because this is a talk-ca discussion list project, there are folks who are
on this list who actually know how todo parts of the import, scripting,
others who work with GeoBase all the time, others who only know OSM, and
others who are keen on the final product. And others who have been
disappointed because there is a chance that the work they did was duplicated
work. .... and others who are frustrated at how long this is taking.. .. and
everywhere in between.
... but then there are others who will be delighted to see that their town
is listed on the map, and can go ahead and enrich the map even further, and
yes.. improving the map much faster than otherwise.

After the import, the number of map users who will be able to fixup and
tweek the data to the existing conditions improves greatly.  ... to the
point that.. as soon as construction finishes.. odds are that someone using
the OpenStreetMap (slippy map/ garmin map /printed derrived map) will see
that it needs to be fixed.... and can.

'cause it's a free project, i do imagine that after the holidays more will
jump in.  ... hopefully
Just a matter of asking the right questions to the right people.

Sure, right now im the most active on the list, but i still dont know how
1 - write code  2 - how to convert shape files to OSM format.
3 - mind-read of everyone else on the list who hasn't said anything in some
time :)
who else can also answer the question:  What is the Goal of this Project?

Oh ya.. 1 interesting tim-bit... is that for this project, unlike smaller
countries... there is a dis-proportional number of mappers per square km.
So for countries with lots of mappers the suggestion of Tracing over the
whole country is actually possible.

And so, the conundrum continues.. that is to devise a way to;
1 - retain post-geobase import OSM data.
2 - copy the OSM tags onto geobase roads, to not have a duplicate.
3 - copy the GeoBase tags onto OSM data, to not have a duplicate.
4 - retain ability to accept yearly GeoBase updates.

Where is the OSM specialty?
The specialty is in the extra tagging, which is not available on any other
map. Resulting in rendering which wont happen on anyother map.

Thats all for now,
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