[Talk-ca] More Google Copying
Adam Dunn
dunnadam at gmail.com
Fri Feb 26 20:50:54 GMT 2010
Found an instance where OSM spelling doesn't agree with NRN spelling, but
does with other map vendors, submitted by the above person. In Valemount,
BC, NRN has a road in triangular shape called Beavan Crescent, while 8th
Avenue terminates at Ash Street. The above person got the correct triangular
shape, but misspelled the road as Bevan Crescent. Interestingly, all of
Google, Bing, Yahoo and Mapquest agree with the user's spelling and conflict
with NRN spelling, but they all conflict with NRN/user's geometry.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.830154&lon=-119.256376&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
(OSM map will be changing soon due to import, so may change by the time you
see this).
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.830277,-119.255911&spn=0.002314,0.006968&t=h&z=18&lci=com.panoramio.all
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=52.830270779110165~-119.25589308142662&lvl=18&sty=r&where1=Valemount%2C%20BC
http://ca.maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=52.830162&lon=-119.256176&zoom=18
http://www.mapquest.com/mq/8-62utTxKQKPkU
Meanwhile, Whitepages confirms the NRN spelling of the road.
http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindNeighbors?street=830+beavan+crescent&where=Valemount%2C+BC
It's hard to say who's correct in this situation. Would be nice to have more
mappers on the ground who can go to the road and look at the street sign.
Perhaps a misspell in the sign led to the mapping companies differing from
NRN?
Adam
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Bégin, Daniel <
Daniel.Begin at rncan-nrcan.gc.ca> wrote:
> Hi Sam,
>
> you wrote "And the other solution is to be copying directly from the NRCan
> paper map sheets". Well, it is almost true if you are not concerned by the
> accuracy.
>
> But if you are, you must know that between 2003 and 2008, 9121 datasets
> were modified to fit the GeoBase alignment Layer.
>
> http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/imagery/landsat/description.html
>
> It improved the data (Canvec) accuracy to better than 30 meters for 93% of
> the files - average accuracy of 22 meters. In some area the displacement
> was up to 1200 meters !
>
> Where is the problem? The data is now more accurate but the corresponding
> paper maps have not been reprinted (.pdf) and are still affected by accuracy
> problems!
>
> BTW, if you are right about the data source you mentionned in "More Google
> Copying" tread - it could have been from NTDB data origionally - it shows
> what you will get in pdf's.
>
> Daniel
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* talk-ca-bounces at openstreetmap.org [mailto:
> talk-ca-bounces at openstreetmap.org] *On Behalf Of *Sam Vekemans
> *Sent:* 21 février 2010 20:17
> *To:* Dan Putler
> *Cc:* Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Sam Dyck
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] More Google Copying
>
> Hi,
> Yup, i just sent off a nice message. Hopefully it will be recieved. I'll
> let you know if i get a responce back.
>
> On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Dan Putler <dan.putler at sauder.ubc.ca>wrote:
>
>> Could the data be from the StatsCan RNF? That would explain the geometry
>> being off, while having street names on the ways.
>>
>> Maybe?
> Then if that's true... then i think it's fine what the user is doing.
> Its still improving the map (from a blank map).
> Once the NRCan data is available, then more work is needed (for everywhere
> for all the features). But again it's to improve the map. So the fact
> that the geometry is off. We need to ask, how much off is it?
> ... if it's within 10meters, then it's still acceptable (as thats the GPS
> standard, when no other sources are available).
>
> Since GeoBase roads just has the basic linework is available. The solution
> would be to also convert the GeoBaseNRN data for Manitoba, then have the
> .osm files open in JOSM & adjust the OSM data to fit the GeoBase road
> network geometry.
> And the other solution is to be copying directly from the NRCan paper map
> sheets (available as PDFfiles). they just need to be alligned with some
> identifing points (the sheets have corner coordinates on it) and matched to
> JOSM points. (i used Garmin MapSource to make a waypoint at the exact
> corners of the sheet to get it lined up)
>
> A manual process, but if it's done by local people while adding more
> details, it shouldn't be that hard.
>
> Cheers,
> Sam
>
>
>> On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 16:34 -0800, Adam Dunn wrote:
>> > The NRN site confirms that names are not available in Manitoba (NRN
>> > for that province is on version 3) [1]. Sam, maybe you should send a
>> > nice email explaining that a blank map is better than an illegal one.
>> > This person has made edits to my hometown that I basically had to
>> > revert because the geometry was way off. Don't know what his source
>> > is...
>> >
>> > [1] http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/nrn/status.html
>> >
>> > Adam
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Sam Dyck <samueldyck at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > About an hour ago he/she was editing in Saskatoon, and has
>> > done a lot of work in Rural Manitoba to.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Sam Vekemans
>> > <acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Not sure if this link works
>> >
>> http://www.itoworld.com/product/osm/map?area=1372:7&show=users&sort=total-&colour=date:30
>> > But you can see whats going on in the area..
>> > (or just log in and zoom to the area to find the
>> > mappers)
>> >
>> >
>> http://picasaweb.google.ca/lh/photo/Orkp7E40gO0fwyJ8AKlIZQ?feat=directlink
>> >
>> > Ya, it seems like alot of work has been done
>> > reciently.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Sam
>> >
>> >
>> > Twitter: @Acrosscanada
>> > Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com
>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans
>> > Skype: samvekemans
>> > OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org
>> > @Acrosscanadatrails
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Sam Dyck
>> > <samueldyck at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I did, Geobase doesn't even have the street
>> > and lacks street names in Manitoba. (at least
>> > this is the case in the viewer. The Geobase
>> > data in Winnipeg appears to be out of date by
>> > at least 14 years in some cases.
>> > But yes, a mapping party would be a good idea,
>> > any other Winnipegers on this list?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Sam Vekemans
>> > <acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Thanks for sharing.
>> > The user seems to be doing alot of
>> > great work.
>> > Did you cross-check with the GeoBase
>> > data?
>> > Im not sure what the spelling of it is
>> > in there.
>> >
>> > If anyone is in Winnipeg, perhaps a
>> > couch mapping party is needed?
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Sam
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Sam
>> > Dyck <samueldyck at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So I just got a job that
>> > involves entering addresses
>> > into Google Maps (don't ask),
>> > one of these streets, Drobot
>> > Place (all address in
>> > winnipeg), Google has either
>> > deliberately or accidentally
>> > named Drobol Place (here,
>> > compare Yahoo, Bing, City of
>> > Winnipeg Assesment, Google
>> > Street View (Needs Flash)).
>> > OSM makes the same mistake as
>> > Google, which leads me to
>> > beileve that the street and
>> > others were copied from
>> > Google. I really hate telling
>> > people that I caught them
>> > "cheating." (I'm sure it was
>> > an honest mistake) Could
>> > someone please contact the
>> > editor responsible (you can
>> > look him/her up, I don't want
>> > to name names. I would be
>> > willing to help with any
>> > followup and cleanup, and you
>> > can give them my username
>> > (sammuell) if you wish, I just
>> > can't bring myself to send a
>> > message explaining just how I
>> > caught them.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Sam
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
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>> --
>> Dan Putler
>> Sauder School of Business
>> University of British Columbia
>>
>>
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