[Talk-ca] Canadian Trails Federation & Ontario Trails - intro & Summery of what Sam is doing.

Thu Jan 21 14:43:15 GMT 2010

Hi Sam - I'm going to talk a bit organically here, as if Canada's trails
where a thing.

I for one do not believe its to much of a stretch for me to say that @ OTC,
CTF and NTC we are always interested in greater clarity about being clear to
the world about what a valuable trail resource we have in Canada, where it
is, how it is used and by whom, as well as what resources it needs to have
in order for it to be a world class product.

Your collaborative and collective effort to gather information on trails is
truly a community based initiative, and I am following it with great
interest.

I look forward to engaging more with you and your community in the future,
because, simply put, I am convinced that the people giving you data are more
in touch with their local trail, know where it is, have it named after a
relative or friend or community leader, and want to declare it and are
probably in the long run going to be a necessary resource in showing us what
they have in their neighborhoods.

That being said I am also very interested in the relationship between your
project and oversight uptake information need systems, such as OTC, NTC, CTF
LIO et al, in also getting and using community collected data and ensuring
its accurate and reliable for stakeholder purposes.

See you later.

Patrick

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Sam Vekemans
<acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Patrick
> cc: talk-ca list, Tim Hoskin, Richard Weait
>
> Was great to meet you yesterday.  Thanks so much for making time on such
> short notice.  Much appreciated.
>
> Happy to hear that your interested in what OpenStreetMap has to offer.
> I know it requires a bit of a learning curve to take it all in.
>
> When you indicated your also interested in Open Software, i mentioned
> Richard Weait. (i included him on the cc: line) As he would be a great
> person to talk to too see how different organizations can make the most of
> the whole OpenSource world and (unlike me) able to explain just what it is
> your trying to accomplish.
> I went over (quickly) how OpenstreetMap can be used as a slippy map, but
> it's Richard who is more qualified at that area than i am.
>
> Regarding trails at the National level,
> As i mentioned, we (the OpenStreetMap Community) already has access to the
> Natural Resources Canada (canvec dataset)[1].  This dataset does include
> trails.   And some trails are even named.   This data will (hopefully) be
> all imported to OpenStreetMap during 2010.  We are still in the 'organizing
> data' phase,  and can currently get all the trails onto OpenStreetMap, but
> want to ensure that the method is a full community effort, while ensuring
> that we dont interfere with the work that already has been done.  So it is a
> balancing act. (for now, the Ibycus topo can be used, as it contains the
> same info) see [2].
>
> Regarding trails on the Provincial level.
> (as i mentioned) Land Information Ontario, through the Data Warehouse.
> (which Ontario Trails Council current submits data too).   Is also available
> to us to import into OpenStreetMap.  because the data from the national
> level is still waiting to be imported.  The Ontario data is currently being
> put on hold.  Considering that the source data (most likely) came directly
> from Land Information Ontario in the 1st place.  It will become an easy
> transition when ready to add it. [3]
>
> Open Contact:
>  As i understand, the Trans Canada Trail[4], is currently VERY frustrated
> with me, because we have different ideas on what is a 'national trail'.  So
> what i do is cc:  Tim Hoskin, so at least he is uptodate and inthe loop on
> what's going on.  (their GPX tracks are protected under copyright, so they
> cannot be used to assist in the development of OpenStreetMap. BUT they can
> still be used in sharing on external track sharing websites, such as see [5]
> for small list.
>
> Regarding Across Canada Trails
> As i mentioned, my goal is to create a separate route Across Canada, 1 for
> each type of recreation.   These routes follow the existing infrastructure,
> and follow the lead that others already have started.
> I have the logos just about complete (should be done in the next couple of
> weeks) [6]
>
> Snowmobile: -  Ie.  Klondike Trails Association wanted to make a national
> Snowmobile route from Yukon to Newfoundland, catching the top part of BC.
> Although it would be called 'Across Canada Trails' (because it isn't
> official), it's a temporary measure, which is intended that this route
> become used and becomes known overtime.
> See website for the background details. [7]
> *This route (may or may not) be included in the OpenStreetMap database,
> it's still up for discussion)
>
> Hiking:  ie. There was an initiative to make a national hiking trail across
> Canada.   So my aim is to make this public under the code name 'Across
> Canada Trails - hiking'  which it's own logo.  But it will actually follow
> this same route. [8]
>  The *Hike Canada En Marche  *site only works in french so here's google
> translate of it [9]
> *This route (may or may not) be included in the OpenStreetMap database,
> it's still up for discussion)
>
> Biking - Trekking: ie.  this route follows the Abandoned trail beds and is
> appropriate for a trekking bike that can handle mud, but is mostly gravel
> with a 3% grade.   Like the others, it follows existing infrastructure.
>
> Biking - touring: ie.  a route which is designed for standard bicycles (not
> racing bikes), where they would be carrying gear.
> This particular route is the one that im currently working on for Vancouver
> Island.   There also isn't any issues with Trans Canada Trail, as it's a
> different route(s).
>
> ATV: ie.  This is the fun one, because the Trans Canada Trails is
> 'anti-ATV', yet ATVs are a fact of life, and a fun recreation (.  What I
> propose is simply creating 1st a national Route that follows
> roads/trails/paths that ATVs are permitted.   Afterall, Signs that state 'no
> ATVs allowed' without providing adequate alternatives is counter-productive.
> Because i am not an ATV user, i cant outline the basics.  However, a
> national network showing the cross-province & major city to major city
> connections can certainly be listed. (when i actually sit down with someone
> who can see a national route, then its easier)
>
> National Recreational Networks:
> This is something that OpenStreetMap can excel in.  Once the community
> agrees that a temporary name for the routes and having it listed as
> 'proposed' (so it will render as a dashed line).   So then it becomes
> crystal clear for everyone on what the intent is.  "To Make A national
> recreational network for each type of recreation".   So we will have 7 (or
> more) networks that will all be made available as a KML overlay.  And where
> the detailed tracks are all made available.
>
> To recap, the  "Across Canada Trails", is the linear 'routes' that goes
> across Canada.   (1 for each type of recreation).   and the National Trail
> Network (1 network for each type of recreation) Could ALSO carry the same
> name.   The ladder would be more appropriate for OpenStreetMap
>
> ....
>
> I think your all caught up now. :)
> And a nice summery for everyone else.
>
> Cheers,
> Sam Vekemans
> Across Canada Trails
>
> [1] http://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/collection/detail.do?id=28954
> [2] http://www.ibycus.com/ibycustopo/
> [3]
> http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/LIO/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_168198.html
> [4] http://www.tctrail.ca/faq.php
> [5]  sites like www.bikemap.net; wandermap.net http://www.runmap.net/,
> http://www.inlinemap.net/ http://www.mopedmap.net/ gpsies.com (but theres
> more like everytrail.com.   bikely.com, but they dont use OpenStreetMap as
> a layer )
> [6]  see http://www.acrosscanadatrails.com/ rather basic, but it's just
> today that im now launching it as public domain.
> [7] http://www.ksa.yk.ca/trail.html
> [8] http://www.canadatrails.ca/hiking/#nt
> [9]
> http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.nationaltrail.ca/&ei=y4lXS7-XFNLd8Qbkho23Aw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBoQ7gEwAg&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhike%2Bcanada%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3Dae4
>

-- 
Patrick Connor CAE
E.D. Ontario Trails Council
Director National Trails Coalition
V.P. Canadian Trails Federation
613-484-1140
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