[Talk-ca] Postal Codes

[James Ewen]

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Adam Martin <s.adam.martin at gmail.com> wrote:

> I was reading over the previous discussions held here regarding the issue of
> obtaining postal codes for use with civic addresses in Canada. I understand
> that, unless specific permission is obtained, there is no way to utilize the
> information stored in the Canada Post database, even if that information is
> manually acquired from the database during a lookup.
>
> Anyway, it would appear that obtaining the information from Canada Post is,
> basically, a dead end. Might I suggest an alternative? Why not a volunteer
> effort? I can't look up a code and reproduce it on the map, but I can surely
> put my own postal code and those of my previous addresses into the map. That
> knowledge has nothing to do with looking it up on their website.

Here's where I have a hard time understanding how postal code
information can ever be used in OSM.

Who created the postal code information? The information can't be
traced back to farmer Brown who lived on this lane in 1642, hence the
road name "Brown Lane".

I believe Canada Post created the database, and defines which areas
are within the bounds of a particular forward sortation area, local
delivery unit. They can change these bounds as necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_codes_in_Canada

Since OSM can't use any restricted information sources, and must rely
on non-encumbered information, how can Canada Post postal code
information ever be considered "common knowledge" or "open data"?

If you look up my postal code, and put it on an envelope, when I
receive that letter, and see my postal code, does it suddenly become
public knowledge, and Canada Post loses the right to maintain control?

If I print out a Google Map, and hand you that copy, does the Google
Map data become non-encumbered?

The only way to know the postal code for any specific location is to
have at one point referenced the Canada Post database, either
directly, or indirectly.

Road names, town names etc. can be argued to precede the map databases
in a number of cases, and have a legal right to be used. In current
towns and cities, when the planners make up road names, it could be
thought of that the designers hold the copyright on the road name
database (if asserted).

I don't see where a completely contrived database of information that
is created and controlled by an entity which asserts copyright will
ever be able to be used in an unencumbered manner, no matter how many
times removed from accessing the database the data is derived.

The idea of each person in Canada providing their specific postal code
to an OSM database does not remove the hold which Canada Post asserts.
It would be illegal for one person to copy the database as a whole, so
why would it be legal for >30 million people to copy one piece of the
database and pool that information?

I love the idea of OSM and would like to see all data available and in
use in the OSM database, but I've always had a hard time figuring out
the line of distinction between encumbered and unencumbered
information sources.

James
VE6SRV