[Talk-ca] Fwd: French street names in Ottawa

[john whelan]

​On 26 September 2016 at 15:02, Gordon Dewis <gordon at pinetree.org> wrote:
I think John's point is that the official name for "Sparks Street" is "rue
Sparks", not "Rue Sparks". If I were to go and confirm street names by
conducting an in-the-field survey, I would find that the sign says "rue
Sparks Street", not "Rue Sparks Street". Whether this follows the rules of
French according to l'Académie française, or some other body, is a
different conversation. If I ask the City of Ottawa, they will tell me "rue
Sparks", and that's what should appear in OSM.

--G
​


Strangely enough that doesn't work either.  There was a suggest that the
street name be "rue Sparks Street" which is fine on a printed map but hell
when you come to do an electronic search you need to enter "rue Sparks
etc.  You don't need the full name but Sparks by itself doesn't work which
is why I looked for other solutions.  The new street signs are of the form
"rue Sparks Street" but older ones with just the street name "Prestone" or
English only "Prestone Drive" are still around.

It other parts of the world name name:second language eg name:fr etc is
used and its documented in the OSM wiki.

By using it I can produce maps in either English or French.  I think Ottawa
is the only city in Canada that has a by-law that specifies street names
should be available in both official languages and it specifies the
translation.  In Gatineau, Montreal etc the problem doesn't arise.

Whilst I agree computers ought to understand what I think for the moment we
are stuck with search algorithms that look for an exact match.  In Ottawa
some imported CANVEC street names that were two words followed by street
etc unfortunately had two spaces in between the two part name.  These have
been caught and corrected but they were a problem for electronic
searching.  I've actually seen an American tourist pull out a laptop and
use JOSM to search an off line map to search for a street in Ottawa so its
not just Nomination that you have to be concerned about there are many
programs that are used to search OSM data.

My background is writing specifications for word processing emails etc in
Federal government and I am very aware that many francophones have
different opinions about the language.  So generally I research an
authority and go with that.  In my opinion the authority for Ottawa street
names is the Ottawa by-law.

If we get a mixture or inconsistency then that is worst than either case.
Computers do not handle inconsistency well.

To make it more usable it should be one way or the other and its not
something I use so in many ways I'm not too bothered which but having added
them to 97% of highways in Ottawa in a consistent manner that adhered to
the Ottawa by-law so they were searchable its a little disappointing that
they have been modified.  Reality is as I say I doubt it is used by anyone,
it was purely put in to meet bilingual requirements and demonstrate what
could be done.

On a practical note I think it is 99% of francophones in Ottawa felt
comfortable using English although service is offered in both official
languages.

Cheerio John
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