[Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?
John Whelan
jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 5 20:30:05 UTC 2018
Sounds good to me. At least we have raised the issue and discussed it.
Cheerio John
James wrote on 2018-11-05 3:17 PM:
> As "Frederick Ramm" would say having external IDs is pointless when
> you can do a spatial join to see what is there and what is not
>
> On Nov. 5, 2018 3:05 p.m., "John Whelan" <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
> <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Something that has come up in the Netherlands is they did an
> import then try to update the buildings once a month. By having
> some sort of id tag on the building their feeling is it makes it
> much easier to pick out new buildings.
>
> On the technical side would we have such an id on the building
> outline if we should wish to separate out new buildings and import
> them later. Currently I don't think we do and someone maybe able
> to work it out from the position but is it something we should
> think about?
>
>
> Cheerio John
>
> John Marshall wrote on 2018-11-04 6:40 PM:
>> Great idea John
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018, 16:48 john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've started the process off by an introductory post to the
>> import mailing list and we are working on a wiki page which
>> will be based on the Stat Canada City of Ottawa import wiki page.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018, 7:34 pm James <james2432 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> if anyone needs a TM or micro data service, I'm available
>> for this
>>
>> On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 7:32 p.m. John Whelan
>> <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> This approach seems very sensible however Pierre has
>> raised the issue of poorly mapped buildings and we
>> are aware that some were mapped in a mapathon
>> environment so whilst Ottawa used a"leave existing
>> buildings alone" approach is this an area where some
>> judgement should be used? and yes I am aware that
>> the official party line is to correct what is there
>> to retain the history which means taking the "Ottawa"
>> approach is less controversial but would probably
>> give us more inaccuracies on the map.
>>
>> An alternative might be to import all the buildings
>> with a different tag than building=yes then leave it
>> to mappers to inspect each before turning the switch
>> or change the tags to building=yes. Those that
>> overlap poorly mapped buildings could be left to some
>> sort of clean up phase.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> Matthew Darwin wrote on 2018-11-02 7:07 PM:
>>>
>>> I think we should identify who would like to be
>>> involved in import for each municipality. (on a
>>> wiki page). On the page, identify roles, like:
>>>
>>> * coordinator
>>> * import data preparation
>>> * QA
>>> * import execution
>>> * data enrichment (commercial, residential, etc...
>>> tagging)
>>> * etc..
>>>
>>> Then we can see where we have gaps and how to fill
>>> them. Perhaps some municipalities have local
>>> mappers who will be happy to do the tagging of
>>> building type (and can do some validation if the
>>> buildings look right), but no technical capability
>>> to execute the actual import. And maybe some folks
>>> who did imports before will help areas where we have
>>> no technical expertise.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2018-11-02 6:58 p.m., John Whelan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So to paraphrase your reply. A centralised import
>>>> plan in the wiki which says the data is approved
>>>> for import and should be tackled in chunks of some
>>>> sort of region since we are a decentralized
>>>> organization. Which I think is similar to the way
>>>> Task Manager works. The project is broken into
>>>> tiles and each tile is tackled completed
>>>> separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat
>>>> larger in area and there is a technical limitation
>>>> as to how big an area can be downloaded from the
>>>> OSM server.
>>>>
>>>> The local mappers certainly have a role to play and
>>>> because the goal is not only to import the
>>>> buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial
>>>> etc so the tag enrichment would be a task that a
>>>> mapathon could tackle. I personally don't think a
>>>> new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role to
>>>> play in importing the building outlines into OSM.
>>>>
>>>> The plan should include the technical steps to
>>>> import the data.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Cheerio John
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:
>>>>> Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de
>>>>> plusieurs municipalités
>>>>> Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan,
>>>>> Québec et Rimouski.
>>>>>
>>>>> Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de
>>>>> bonne qualité et proviennent je suppose des
>>>>> cadastres des municipalités. En milieu urbain,
>>>>> cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des
>>>>> immeubles juxtaposés.
>>>>>
>>>>> Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec
>>>>> les données de Microsoft, que les projets sont par
>>>>> région ou municipalité.
>>>>>
>>>>> Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop
>>>>> centralisé tant pour assurer un meilleur contrôle
>>>>> du déroulement dans chaque municipalité, région
>>>>> que pour permettre aux communautés des provinces
>>>>> et communautés locales de s'impliquer.
>>>>>
>>>>> La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du
>>>>> Canada peut répondre aux exigences du groupe
>>>>> Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être
>>>>> décentralisée.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour
>>>>> supporter les communautés des provinces et
>>>>> communautés locales. C'est une occasion de
>>>>> dynamiser ces communautés avec un projet très
>>>>> intéressant. De là, ils auront le goût de
>>>>> compléter la carte pour y décrire les
>>>>> infrastructures locales.
>>>>>
>>>>> Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur
>>>>> un gestionnaire de tâches, il sera très difficile
>>>>> de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une progression
>>>>> coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou
>>>>> organisations externes s'invitent pour collaborer
>>>>> à de telles tâches avec les milliers et milliers
>>>>> de personnes qui viennent jardiner quelques heures
>>>>> sans organisation / formation réelle et laissent
>>>>> ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous.
>>>>
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