[Talk-ca] Stats Canada new building outlines Open Data do we wish to import it?

John Whelan jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 5 20:30:05 UTC 2018


Sounds good to me.  At least we have raised the issue and discussed it.

Cheerio John

James wrote on 2018-11-05 3:17 PM:
> As "Frederick Ramm" would say having external IDs is pointless when 
> you can do a spatial join to see what is there and what is not
>
> On Nov. 5, 2018 3:05 p.m., "John Whelan" <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Something that has come up in the Netherlands is they did an
>     import then try to update the buildings once a month.  By having
>     some sort of id tag on the building their feeling is it makes it
>     much easier to pick out new buildings.
>
>     On the technical side would we have such an id on the building
>     outline if we should wish to separate out new buildings and import
>     them later. Currently I don't think we do and someone maybe able
>     to work it out from the position but is it something we should
>     think about?
>
>
>     Cheerio John
>
>     John Marshall wrote on 2018-11-04 6:40 PM:
>>     Great idea John
>>
>>     John
>>
>>     On Sun, Nov 4, 2018, 16:48 john whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>         I've started the process off by an introductory post to the
>>         import mailing list and we are working on a wiki page which
>>         will be based on the Stat Canada City of Ottawa import wiki page.
>>
>>         Cheerio John
>>
>>         On Fri, 2 Nov 2018, 7:34 pm James <james2432 at gmail.com
>>         <mailto:james2432 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>             if anyone needs a TM or micro data service, I'm available
>>             for this
>>
>>             On Fri., Nov. 2, 2018, 7:32 p.m. John Whelan
>>             <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>                 This approach seems very sensible however Pierre has
>>                 raised the issue of poorly mapped buildings and we
>>                 are aware that some were mapped in a mapathon
>>                 environment so whilst Ottawa used a"leave existing
>>                 buildings alone" approach is this an area where some
>>                 judgement should be used?  and yes I am aware that
>>                 the official party line is to correct what is there
>>                 to retain the history which means taking the "Ottawa"
>>                 approach is less controversial but would probably
>>                 give us more inaccuracies on the map.
>>
>>                 An alternative might be to import all the buildings
>>                 with a different tag than building=yes then leave it
>>                 to mappers to inspect each before turning the switch
>>                 or change the tags to building=yes.  Those that
>>                 overlap poorly mapped buildings could be left to some
>>                 sort of clean up phase.
>>
>>                 Thanks John
>>
>>                 Matthew Darwin wrote on 2018-11-02 7:07 PM:
>>>
>>>                 I think we should identify who would like to be
>>>                 involved in import for each municipality.  (on a
>>>                 wiki page).     On the page, identify roles, like:
>>>
>>>                   * coordinator
>>>                   * import data preparation
>>>                   * QA
>>>                   * import execution
>>>                   * data enrichment (commercial, residential, etc...
>>>                     tagging)
>>>                   * etc..
>>>
>>>                 Then we can see where we have gaps and how to fill
>>>                 them.  Perhaps some municipalities have local
>>>                 mappers who will be happy to do the tagging of
>>>                 building type (and can do some validation if the
>>>                 buildings look right), but no technical capability
>>>                 to execute the actual import.  And maybe some folks
>>>                 who did imports before will help areas where we have
>>>                 no technical expertise.
>>>
>>>
>>>                 On 2018-11-02 6:58 p.m., John Whelan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 So to paraphrase your reply.  A centralised import
>>>>                 plan in the wiki which says the data is approved
>>>>                 for import and should be tackled in chunks of some
>>>>                 sort of region since we are a decentralized
>>>>                 organization.  Which I think is similar to the way
>>>>                 Task Manager works.  The project is broken into
>>>>                 tiles and each tile is tackled completed
>>>>                 separately. The 'Tiles' would of course be somewhat
>>>>                 larger in area and there is a technical limitation
>>>>                 as to how big an area can be downloaded from the
>>>>                 OSM server.
>>>>
>>>>                 The local mappers certainly have a role to play and
>>>>                 because the goal is not only to import the
>>>>                 buildings but to enrich the tags with commercial
>>>>                 etc so the tag enrichment would be a task that a
>>>>                 mapathon could tackle.  I personally don't think a
>>>>                 new mapper using iD in a mapathon has a role to
>>>>                 play in importing the building outlines into OSM.
>>>>
>>>>                 The plan should include the technical steps to
>>>>                 import the data.
>>>>
>>>>                 Thanks
>>>>
>>>>                 Cheerio John
>>>>
>>>>                 Pierre Béland wrote on 2018-11-02 6:35 PM:
>>>>>                 Pour le Québec, je retrouve les données de
>>>>>                 plusieurs municipalités
>>>>>                 Montréal, Longueuil, Repentigny, Shawinigan,
>>>>>                 Québec et Rimouski.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Première observation rapide, aussi, elles sont de
>>>>>                 bonne qualité et proviennent je suppose des
>>>>>                 cadastres des municipalités. En milieu urbain,
>>>>>                 cela facilite beaucoup l'identification des
>>>>>                 immeubles juxtaposés.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Je vois ailleurs, aux États-Unis notamment avec
>>>>>                 les données de Microsoft, que les projets sont par
>>>>>                 région ou municipalité.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Je pense qu'il faut éviter un projet trop
>>>>>                 centralisé tant pour assurer un meilleur contrôle
>>>>>                 du déroulement dans chaque municipalité, région
>>>>>                 que pour permettre aux communautés des provinces
>>>>>                 et communautés locales de s'impliquer.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 La rédaction d' une page wiki pour l'ensemble du
>>>>>                 Canada peut répondre aux exigences du groupe
>>>>>                 Import de OSM. Mais l'organisation doit être
>>>>>                 décentralisée.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Le rôle de cette liste doit être un forum pour
>>>>>                 supporter les communautés des provinces et
>>>>>                 communautés locales. C'est une occasion de
>>>>>                 dynamiser ces communautés avec un projet très
>>>>>                 intéressant. De là, ils auront le goût de
>>>>>                 compléter la carte pour y décrire les
>>>>>                 infrastructures locales.
>>>>>
>>>>>                 Si trop de tâches sont initiées en parallèle sur
>>>>>                 un gestionnaire de tâches, il sera très difficile
>>>>>                 de coordonner, assurer le suivi, une progression
>>>>>                 coordonnée. Il faut éviter que des mapathons ou
>>>>>                 organisations externes s'invitent pour collaborer
>>>>>                 à de telles tâches avec les milliers et milliers
>>>>>                 de personnes qui viennent jardiner quelques heures
>>>>>                 sans organisation / formation réelle et laissent
>>>>>                 ensuite le tout sans dessus, dessous.
>>>>
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