[Talk-ca] First Nations reserve naming

[Hoser AB]

"A bit busy" continuing to edit relations you were quite politely and
pointedly asked to refrain from editing until you participated further in
this discussion, but I digress...

1) "I ended up following how other First Nations with one reserve displayed
on OSM" is problematic: we don't concern ourselves with how things are
*displayed* on the map. Nor do all First Nations need to be mapped in the
same way. Nor should they be.

2) It's entirely redundant to have two overlapping relations for what is
essentially the same thing. It is entirely contrary to one of the most
basic OSM good practices: "one feature, one OSM element". In the case of
the Tsuut'ina, the nation and the land and the people all have the exact
same name: Tsuut'ina Nation. Adding an additional, overlapping relation
(erroneously) called "Tsuu T'ina Nation 145" adds nothing to the map.

3) We add wikipedia=* and wikidata=* tags to OSM elements which happen to
have Wikipedia articles and wikidata codes for them; we don't add elements
to OSM for the expressed purpose of adding wikipedia and wikidata tags to
them. Or put another way, just because something has a wikidata tag and a
Wikipedia page does not mean it merits being added to OSM, especially where
it could have been represented with a single thing that's already on the
map. (see point 2 above w.r.t. "one feature, one OSM element") With respect
to the additional overlapping Tsuut'ina "reserve" relation you added, YOU
MOVED THE WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE to suit your preferred (outdated...) spelling
after someone else had already moved the article to the current spelling
(see
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tsuu_T%27ina_145&type=revision&diff=1124936360&oldid=1124525054).
You're editing Wikipedia to suit what you wanted to do on OSM; that is
problematic...

I urge you to read the OSM wiki, especially as it concerns names and
"truth". See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ground_truth. Geographical
reality—"ground-truth"—is that "Tsuu T'ina Nation 145" is simply "the
Tsuut'ina Nation". "Official-truth" isn't lost if we simply add
official_name=*. This is precisely how the Tsuut'ina Nation was mapped in
the first place, before you ever touched it. It was absolutely fine the way
it was. You created a solution in search of a problem.


On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 2:03 AM Michael Stark <michael60634 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey, sorry for the delay in replying. I've been a bit busy between when I
> last wrote and now. Also, I hope I sent this correctly as I am not familiar
> with using the mailing list.
>
> What I ended up doing is following what how other First Nations with one
> reserve are displayed on OSM. That would be a relation for the First
> Nation, and a relation for the reserve. It may sound redundant to have two
> separate relations, and I thought this at first too, but upon further
> consideration, I think it might be the right solution. The reason for this
> is that both the First Nation and the reserve have separate names, official
> names, Wikidata tags, Wikipedia tags, previous names, et cetera. So the
> existing relation is for the Tsuut'ina Nation and has all relevant tags,
> and I created a new relation for the reserve, which has all tags relevant
> to the reserve.
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 9:22 AM John Whelan <jwhelan0112 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Even using the term "First Nations reserve" maybe controversial.
>>
>> Not an easy one.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-ca wrote on 12/3/2022 8:31 AM:
>>
>> OSM object representing XYZ should carry the name of XYZ
>>
>> OSM object representing First Nations reserve should carry name
>> of First Nations reserve
>>
>> 2 gru 2022, 07:08 od michael60634 at gmail.com:
>>
>> How should First Nations reserves be named? Is it best to use the name of
>> the reserve, or the name of the group that inhabits the reserve? I've
>> noticed that two mappers changed the names of many reserves across Canada,
>> and even the US, from the name of the reserve to the name of the tribe
>> inhabiting the reserve.
>>
>>
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