[Talk-ca] REM (Montreal) tagging

[Daniel Bégin]

+1

From: Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais <leo at leograph.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August, 2023 15:29
To: Daniel Bégin <jfd553 at hotmail.com>
Cc: Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com>; talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] REM (Montreal) tagging

It is indeed 35000 passenger / hour.

The Montreal subway has trains of 9 cars, each of which can have 120 passengers, so you get 1080 passegners per train, every 2.5 minutes which is almost 26000 passengers/hour. In Hong Kong and in Japan, trains can have 10 cars, and are larger, so you can fit 1250 passenger, and they can run every 2 minutes, so you get 37500 passenger per hour per direction.

😀

For comparison, an urban motorway have a max capacity of 1200 vehicles/hour in each lane. With an average car occupancy in North America of between 1.2 and 1.25 passenger per car, you get between 1440 and 1500 passengers per hour per direction per lane, so a 3-lanes urban motorway (like the Metropolitain in Montreal) has a capacity of max 4500 passengers/hour, and it is even less when congestion is really high, because speed drops a lot. The subway in Montreal has a top speed of around 72 km/h, but an operating speed, including stops, of around 40 km/h. An urban motorway has an operating speed between 10 km/h if congested, to around 70-80 km/h with free-flowing. (Between both A15 (south and north) on the A40 in Montreal, the average speed is around 10-20km/h at peak hour), so the subway is twice as fast, with a capacity at least 6 times higher, but transfers and access can reduce the overall speed of transit, so the comparison is complicated.


On Aug 16, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Daniel Bégin <jfd553 at hotmail.com<mailto:jfd553 at hotmail.com>> wrote:

“up to 35000 passenger/hour”
IMHO, I think it is passengers/day 😊

From: Pierre-Léo Bourbonnais <leo at leograph.com<mailto:leo at leograph.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August, 2023 13:23
To: Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com<mailto:jheromemiguel at gmail.com>>
Cc: talk-ca at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] REM (Montreal) tagging

The exact term for REM would be LRRT (Light rail rapid transit) that is between a RRT (Rapid rail transit, Subway / aerial metro, up to 35000 passenger/hour per direction) and a LRT (Light rail transit / tram, up to 8000 passengers/hour per direction)

OSM does not have this name, so choosing any between LRT and subway would be fine for me.

By the way I am a teacher for transit courses at Polytechnique Montreal (CIV6707A and CIV6708)



On Aug 15, 2023, at 8:38 PM, Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com<mailto:jheromemiguel at gmail.com>> wrote:

Something can be said as well for Scarborough RT. For me, Maybe a practical distinction given REM and Scarborough RT has less capacity than let's say the Montreal Metro or Toronto subway which have the route=subway tag.

Vancouver's SkyTrain is similar in design (shorter trains and small capacity), but tagged as subway.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 2:29 PM Martin Chalifoux <martin.chalifoux at icloud.com<mailto:martin.chalifoux at icloud.com>> wrote:
I think the REM is an LRT and not a subway by it’s design

> On Aug 15, 2023, at 4:14 PM, Jherome Miguel <jheromemiguel at gmail.com<mailto:jheromemiguel at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Shouldn't the REM route relations be tagged as route=subway? It's currently tagged with route=light_rail, but shouldn't that be for LRT systems instead? Or is the tagging for practical distinction given these have capacity between LRT and subway? _______________________________________________
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