[Talk-ca] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways

Justin Tracey j3tracey at gmail.com
Fri Jan 27 21:45:25 UTC 2023


We don't have to rely entirely on personal experience either: an 
Overpass query for [highway=motorway][surface=unpaved] over Canada 
returns no results. Same for other high-use unpaved tags on taginfo 
(ground, dirt, compacted). It seems pretty definitionally true that if a 
road isn't paved in Canada, it's not a motorway.

  - Justin

On 2023-01-27 14:57, john whelan wrote:
> I would support Jarek's views here if that helps you see a consensus.
> 
> I have yet to come across an unpaved motorway in Canada.  We are 
> reasonably civilised in the North.
> 
> We do have ice roads but they really aren't motorways.
> 
> Cheerio John
> 
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023, 14:49 David Salmon <David.Salmon at tomtom.com 
> <mailto:David.Salmon at tomtom.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Jarek,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     It could be difficult for some users to distinguish between specific
>     surface types using only aerial imagery alone. Even if there’s
>     ground truth data, like Bing Streetside or Mapillary, depending on
>     the lighting conditions and image clarity, interpretation could be
>     tricky. Flagging a task as Too Hard is an option to cover situations
>     where the user can’t confidently make a determination with the
>     available source material.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     However, I don’t sense a consensus yet on the approach of using
>     Paved versus a specific surface value. Would you prefer that I make
>     the challenge Not Discoverable until there’s time to conclude the
>     discussion?____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Generally the types of leads that TomTom can generate for potential
>     updates to OSM are usually incidental but spread across wide areas.
>     With that in mind, MapRoulette tends to be a better fit. Although we
>     have used HOT Tasking manager at the request of communities too.
>     We’re open to tailoring the approach depending on the need.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I’m interested in learning more about the history of the fords and
>     waterways topic to understand how we can help. Let me know if you’d
>     be interested in joining an online meeting to discuss that topic
>     further.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     All the best,____
> 
>     David____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *From:* Jarek Piórkowski <jarek at piorkowski.ca
>     <mailto:jarek at piorkowski.ca>>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, January 26, 2023 3:11 PM
>     *To:* talk-ca at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>;
>     David Salmon <David.Salmon at tomtom.com <mailto:David.Salmon at tomtom.com>>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Talk-ca] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to
>     Highways____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     	
> 
>     You don't often get email from jarek at piorkowski.ca
>     <mailto:jarek at piorkowski.ca>. Learn why this is important
>     <https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>____
> 
>     	
> 
>     Hello David,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Welcome to the list, and thank you for the introduction.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     The task description on MapRoulette says "The goal of this challenge
>     is to identify and add missing surface tags on motorways and
>     motorway links as they represent high speed roads, and it is
>     desirable to accurately tag the surface for these highways."____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     In this specific case, it might be easier to assume in map and
>     router applications that all motorways in Canada are paved unless
>     tagged otherwise. I am not aware of any exceptions, and if some
>     exist, they are probably already tagged as unpaved. I'm seeing an
>     analogy to defaulting to oneway=yes on motorways and only tagging
>     the ways that are oneway=no.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     If you are looking for more detail than "paved", can all MapRoulette
>     challenge participants reliably distinguish between asphalt,
>     concrete, and other types of pavement using aerial imagery?____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Are you planning on expanding this challenge to other roads, and
>     will those be also done using aerial imagery?____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     I am a little skeptical about using MapRoulette to obtain precise
>     data like this. I have seen fords wrongly added in southern Ontario
>     by MapRoulette users seemingly more eager to solve the task quickly
>     than to improve the map. These users displayed little familiarity
>     about how roads in the region actually look: crossings of streams
>     are overwhelmingly culverts, and many streams are anyway inaccurate
>     from an old import, but cleanup takes time, so instead they put on
>     the ford tag and moved on. I don't think that kind of challenge
>     really helps the map. But maybe we can set up a MapRoulette
>     challenge to correct ford crossings on roads in southern Ontario
>     that are actually culverts.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Curious to hear your thoughts on data quality and how
>     MapRoulette-sourced surface information helps OSM and TomTom.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Thanks,____
> 
>     Jarek____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     On Wed, Jan 25, 2023, at 08:03, David Salmon wrote:____
> 
>         Hello Canada OSM Community,____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         I hope that the beginning of 2023 is going well for everyone.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         I’d like to introduce myself - my name is David, and I have
>         picked-up the role of TomTom Community Manager for the United
>         States and Canada from Courtney
>         <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fuser%2Fcourtiney%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cdavid.salmon%40tomtom.com%7C80e35a13fd2c40e00d9f08daffd986e2%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C638103606990259675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bfegGrEUTC%2FMuwIQFzv86Vb5DzXZDwsJegGGuIjbAKY%3D&reserved=0>.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         I’m reaching out to inform you that we have created a new
>         MapRoulette challenge in order to add Surface to ways in
>         Ontario. To detect the issues in this challenge, we used
>         Overpass Turbo to select Motorways where the Surface tag was not
>         present.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         You can find the challenge here: Canada - Add Surface to Highway
>         - January 2023 - Ontario
>         <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaproulette.org%2Fbrowse%2Fchallenges%2F37420&data=05%7C01%7Cdavid.salmon%40tomtom.com%7C80e35a13fd2c40e00d9f08daffd986e2%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C638103606990259675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=97UselFc%2FJIFlRcltF7s2%2BcDNGNJQWq%2Bn3zcCU1z%2FOM%3D&reserved=0>____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         In the description of the challenge you can find some additional
>         information that will make it easier for you to solve the tasks.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         Do not hesitate to contact me at david.salmon at tomtom.com
>         <mailto:david.salmon at tomtom.com> to talk about possible
>         collaborations, problems or challenges that you have detected.
>         If you want to share them with us, we will be happy to explore
>         how we can help.____
> 
>         ____
> 
>         In the meantime, happy editing!____
> 
>         ___________________________________________________
> 
>         Talk-ca mailing list____
> 
>         Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>____
> 
>         https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>         <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-ca&data=05%7C01%7Cdavid.salmon%40tomtom.com%7C80e35a13fd2c40e00d9f08daffd986e2%7C374f80267b544a3ab87d328fa26ec10d%7C0%7C0%7C638103606990259675%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fXVztbGq%2F49jOMGZ8b%2Fi6WUpCvKvyIu6TrxeIkQ1y8o%3D&reserved=0>____
> 
>         __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
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