[Talk-cl] [OSM-talk] Collective assessment of need for public high-res imagery of Chile

Shoaib Burq saburq en gmail.com
Mar Mar 9 07:22:13 GMT 2010

Is there really any doubt that post disaster imagery is useful? Surly
not, but ut the question about making it public is controversial.
Haiti was a special case due to the inability of the government to
respond. But in most disasters local, state and national authorities
have access to post-disaster imagery and start using it. The question
for CM is  how do we  balance the benefits of making the imagery
public imagery (namely crowd sourcing digitizing the data) with those
of privacy and need to respect the internal procedures of emergency
services agencies.

I can imagine seeing a network of Crisis Mappers with pre-arranged
agreements with users with access to certain parts of imagery.

The issue with privacy is also related to being too close to the
disaster. E.g. with bushfires in OZ last year I was working with the
police to identify fatalities. From imagery you could guess if the
residents in this house had any chance of survival. I was not from
that part of the country so I could detach myself from thinking too
much about the human tragedy. But imagine if I had grown up in that
town and knew the family that lived in that house. Raises some
difficult questions ... I don't have answers but I think there are way
we can achieve the benefits that Crisis Mappers provides and still
work within the guidelines of emergency authorities.

One way to do it is to build partnerships b/w local crisis camps and
local emergency authoroties and then hold crisis camps where the
sensitive stuff gets handled online on site with authorized access.

Any other thoughts?

Shoab Burq
Mapping and Planning Support (MAPS)
Canberra, ACT, Australia

On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 6:51 PM, David Stevens <tazarkount en gmail.com> wrote:
> Jean-Guilhem
> Let me put forward a few more ideas on top of what Chris put forward.
> First of all I do want to confirm that we know how relevant the work carried
> out within CrisisMappers is. Here at UN-SPIDER there are several of us
> following closely the postings. Having said that I do question how much of
> the relevant analysis and map products actually were used/are being used by
> the UN and other responding agencies on the ground in Haiti (here I am
> thinking specifically of the map products). We will be evaluating this next
> week when we meet with the Civil Protection Agency in PaP. My view is that
> the UN should have used it more and there is a need to integrate more
> closely. We have a UN-SPIDER International Workshop in Bonn in October and
> we will take the opportunity of this international gathering of experts to
> evaluate exactly that (among other topics): how can we as UN build upon
> wider opportunities including CrisisMappers.
> Then regarding access to imagery Chris correctly pointed out that all
> imagery is being made available for free use by Chilean institutions as well
> as all NGOs and international organisations directly supporting these
> institutions We list the imagery on our webpage
> http://www.un-spider.org/chile
> We also list the updated target areas for imagery and also the list of
> Chilean institutions that are coordinating the efforts. Notice that Chile
> has designated specific people to coordinate this international effort.
> If anyone on this list is directly supporting the efforts at the request of
> the Chilean government and does not have access to the resources listed on
> the webpage then please send me an email (david.stevens en unoosa.org) so we
> can help get access.
> In turn I will prepare a list of the known ongoing efforts which we know
> have started and post this list. Two such efforts is G-MOSAIC and ITHACA.
> Chile is a different working environment but also an opportunity for this
> wider international community to have a stronger impact in the decision
> process as long as we can ensure that the work carried out is done closely
> with a Chilean institution involved in the response.
> Finally I do want to point out that the norm is not to have access to free
> imagery for wider public use. Right now we at UN-SPIDER are looking at
> getting imagery for two other disasters which are not receiving wide
> attention: the landslide in Uganda and the emerging situation in Kiev with
> possible record floods over the next couple of weeks.
> And one last final input: once you have an assessment which will definitely
> show how useful public access to free imagery is in supporting response
> efforts we will be the first to work with you to raise awareness of the need
> to wide access to imagery for any disaster (and not just the ones that hit
> the media attention)
> Regards
> David
> David Stevens
> Programme Coordinator
> United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs
> Vienna - Austria
> Tel. ++43-(1)-26060-5631 - Skype: tazarkount
> Mobile +43 - 699 1459-5631 -  E-Mail david.stevens en unoosa.org
> On 3 March 2010 07:16, Chris <chrisgnicholas en gmail.com> wrote:
>> I wouldn't be so sure of that; a few observations:
>> First and foremost, it has been cloudy.
>> Secondly, there is a LOT of discussion going on, with a well-
>> functioning government, through well established channels, that isn't
>> necessarily posted to this Google Group. That includes all well-known
>> sources of imagery, software, and support services.
>> Thirdly, Haiti was a VERY special case. For a lot of reasons, a vast
>> amount of imagery was made available for free, and an ecosystem
>> instantly rose to the occaision and filled a relative void with
>> beautiful maps. Although the case can be made that, due to results of
>> the past few weeks with OSM, imagery SHOULD be free for Chile, that is
>> not by ANY means a general policy.  Seriously, what were the valuable
>> assets? things with resolutions of less than one meter.  Would you
>> suggest that, overnight, because of Haiti, every provider, satellite
>> and aerial, should just say: "oh! you guys are right...I think I'll
>> just forget about covering costs and give it all away...every time"
>> Finally, to address item 3) the Disaster Charter mechanism was
>> established. It augments item 2), and was not constructed around the
>> paradigm of "crowdsourcing". Rather, it was constructed to use space
>> assets to minimize loss of life and infrastructure, by allowing access
>> by "participating agencies", which is a well-defined term. Arguing the
>> case to equate "crowdsourcing" with "participating agencies" is a
>> topic for dicussion with the charter members.  NGA, as represented by
>> USGS, is the member representing DigitalGlobe and GeoEye.
>> There are decent maps. UN-SPIDER is project manager for space asset
>> coordination, as per the disaster charter protocol; Chile's civil
>> defense ministry, ONEMI , is the consumer. More detailed info on the
>> emergency ops sitrep can be found on ReliefWeb, at:
>> http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MUMA-8377RG?OpenDocument&rc=2&emid=EQ-2010-000034-CHL
>> ESRI/Chile, Autodesk Latina America, and others has been working in
>> Chile, and with the government, for a very long time; i.e. there are a
>> lot of other, pre-existing channels being exercised. I don't have time
>> to discover and cross-post everything.
>> But don't presume nothing is going on. Rather, this situation, (and
>> every situation is different) is a lot different than Haiti, i.e.
>> Crisismappers/Google Group is only one, of several, tools in the shed
>> to fight the fire.
>> If someone on this list wants to step up and start writing checks to
>> make imagery available for free to all, that would be great!
>> But don't presume ONEMI can't access all the imagery that's available.
>> Chris Nicholas
>> On Mar 2, 8:55 pm, Jean-Guilhem Cailton <j... en arkemie.com> wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > Satellite image providers are apparently holding off high-res images of
>> > Chile from public access.
>> >
>> > This is an attempt at a collective assessment of need.
>> >
>> > Based on your knowledge of the situation in Chile, and possibly of your
>> > experience mapping Haiti thanks to publicly available high-res imagery,
>> >
>> > could you please write up your testimony or assessment of need for
>> > public high-res images of Chile ?
>> >
>> > Think that you are writing for a journalist so:
>> >
>> > - try to keep it short, because he (or she) is often in a hurry,
>> >
>> > - be simple, because he may not be a specialist of mapping or of
>> > satellite images,
>> >
>> > - give specific examples or facts.
>> >
>> > Send your assessment of need to h... en openstreetmap.org and
>> > crisismappers-chile en googlegroups.com .
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Jean-Guilhem
>> >
>> > Chile earthquake imagery that can currently be used by OpenStreetMap for
>> > tracing:
>> >
>> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2010_Chile_earthquake/Imagery_and_...
> --
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