[Talk-cn] Fwd: 关于name标签

星期日十二月 11 10:54:02 GMT 2011

On 12/11/2011 06:27 PM, yang wrote:
> 倒不是他不会输入中文的问题，而是他在中文后追加了英文名，大家可以去他的编辑里围观。
> 我已经告诉他可以使用name:en，可他就是不听。
>
> 2011/12/11 Sun Ning<classicning在gmail.com>:
>> On 12/11/2011 05:41 PM, Wang Chun wrote:
>>> 所有中国大陆境内的name字段皆应使用简化汉字，包括少数民族地区，这没什么可讲的。
>>>
>>> 所有台灣境內的name字段皆應使用正體漢字，這也沒甚麼可講的。
>>>
>>> 港澳地區的name字段亦應使用繁體字標記。
>>>
>>> 2011/12/11 yang<mmyangfl在gmail.com>:
>>>> 秀一下我和他的对话（哥的英语有待改进啊......）
>>>> ===
>>>> On 2011-12-11 03:33:32 UTC yangfl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2011-12-10 04:09:44 UTC f22shift wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2011-12-10 03:24:12 UTC yangfl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I notice you have edit many objects' name tag.It seems that you want
>>>>>>> to add the name in English to them. But please read the Wiki page
>>>>>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name .Key "name" should ONLY be put the
>>>>>>> name in local language i.e. Chinese on.If you do want to do this, please add
>>>>>>> additional name tags like "name:en"(actually most of them have had this
>>>>>>> tag).This tag is already accepted by many apps and editors e.g. JOSM.
>>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>> yangfl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 我注意到您已经编辑了许多对象的name标签。看起来您想要给它们添加英文名字。但请您阅读一下http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name。键"name"只应放上本地语言的名字。如果您真的想要这样做，请添加"name:en"。大多数的软件已经接受了这个标签。
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes I did add Pinyin. I did not add the english name.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's important that Pinyin is added in addition to the Hanzi.
>>>>>> These are not actual english translation but the romanization of how to
>>>>>> pronounce the local language. Some may argue it's not even the local
>>>>>> language which is Shanghainese.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ALL Shanghai signs on the streets are in both Hanzi and Pinyin so this
>>>>>> naming of the openstreetmaps reflects the local naming of roads. Yes, all of
>>>>>> them. Minor roads, major street, highways all have Pinyin. Shanghai is
>>>>>> highly westernized and it will be the trend for the future.
>>>>>> "152,050 officially registered foreigners in Shanghai as of 2009. Note
>>>>>> that these statistics only show officially registered residents, and that
>>>>>> the actual number of foreign citizens living in Shanghai is likely much
>>>>>> higher." -wikipedia. There is a lot of people to benefit with the addition
>>>>>> of the Pinyin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In applications such as MotionX Gps which uses openstreetmaps, it will
>>>>>> only show the "name:" tag with no option for "name:en". This would be a
>>>>>> hindrance for expats to have only a Hanzi naming system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is plenty room on the map to have both Hanzi and Pinyin naming i
>>>>>> believe. I've spent many many hours contributing to the Shanghai map(naming,
>>>>>> fixing rd alignment, adding streets, adding POI). I believe this is the
>>>>>> right course in naming the streets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will Sheftick
>>>>> There is a national standard that define how to write romanization
>>>>> pronounce for any Hanzi.Also all the names should be translated to another
>>>>> language by their pronounce,not by their meanings.And you DID add english
>>>>> names.If you want add Pinyin,why did you use "Road" for "路" but not "Lu"?
>>>>> Many Shanghainese,like other people in other part in China,can easily
>>>>> tell the name in their dialect if they can read even when they can't
>>>>> understand the name's meaning.They just tell it by one Hanzi.
>>>>> The European countries which English is not their local language don't
>>>>> put the english name on the tag "name".I don't believe their road signs
>>>>> don't have english names and english-speakers are less than that in
>>>>> Shanghai.Hong Kong use this system because both Chinese and English are
>>>>> their official languages.Many Hongkongese can speak English fluently.And how
>>>>> many Shanghaiese can do this?
>>>>> MotionX Gps use Mapnik title.So it don't show the "name:en" tag.But
>>>>> please notice that MotionX Gps is not an navigation application.Navigation
>>>>> applications must use the osm source date.If both Chinese and English names
>>>>> are on the name tag,navigation applications won't know what their names are.
>>>>> I believe it's not a good idea to add English name on it.
>>>>> yangfl
>>>> the fluency in english in the same. the more local the less likely to
>>>> speak english in both hk and shanghai. both are trending towards a
>>>> bilingual society. just stop by any fast food restaurant.
>>>> i feel like your thinking is old school. just because it's not your
>>>> way doesn't make it wrong. the addition of pinyin adds and not
>>>> subtracts from the usefulness. it benefits the masses. openstreetmap
>>>> is about contributing.
>>>>
>>>> 在 2011年12月11日 上午11:54，Wang Chun<yaohua2000在gmail.com>   写道：
>>>>> 改
>>>>> 批量改
>>>>> 写机器人批量改
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/12/11 yang<mmyangfl在gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 最近很郁闷的看到，f22shift在大量为对象的name标签添加英文名（而不是name:en标签）。我个人认为，name标签是放中文的地方，不是其他语言的集中营。要是这样，大家都添加自己的语言，岂不是变得很混乱？同时我查了一下wiki，上面说本地语言的名字应放在name标签，其他语言要新建自己的标签。不知大家对此有何看法？
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>> 关于拼音的问题，可以参考这个wiki条目
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#China
>> 这上面有很清楚的说明
>>
>> 我觉得至少这个阶段如果他输入中文比较困难的话，首先要求他保持一致性吧。不 怕英文标签，就怕那种name:中山路(Zhongshan
>> Rd.)，这种东西最可怕，批量处理 起来也很麻烦。只要能保持一致性，未来通过API把name拷贝到name:en还是可行的。
>>
>> --
>> Sun Ning
>> Software developer
>> Nanjing, China (N32°3'42'' E118°46'40'')
>> http://about.me/sunng/bio
>>
>>
>>
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悲剧，怕的就是这种。
还是得跟他争这个事，不然垃圾数据越来越多。我的两个观点：
1. 关于多语言name标签的使用OSM有明确的规范，既然说osm is about 
contributing，那么这种方式的编辑不能算是真正的contributing
2. 数据和渲染分离，数据通过mapnik样式表渲染成地图。不要为了地图的渲染而 
编辑数据。不排除未来会有第三方服务全部用name:en渲染的地图。作为 那个什么 
什么GPS的用户，他也可以向厂商去反映这个问题，而不是以破坏OSM数据一致性为代价

PS: 杨同学回复的时候记得cc一下talk-cn

-- 
Sun Ning
Software developer
Nanjing, China (N32°3'42'' E118°46'40'')
http://about.me/sunng/bio