[Talk-cn] Fwd: 关于name标签

[yang]

ÕûÀíһϵ½Ä¿Ç°µÄ¶Ô»°£¬Í¬Ê±¶ÔûÓÐccµ½talk-cn±íʾµÀǸ¡£
====
yang
×î½üºÜÓôÃƵĿ´µ½£¬f22shiftÔÚ´óÁ¿Îª¶ÔÏóµÄname±êÇ©Ìí¼ÓÓ¢ÎÄÃû£¨¶ø²»ÊÇname:en±êÇ©£©¡£ÎÒ¸öÈËÈÏΪ£¬name±êÇ©ÊÇ·ÅÖÐÎĵĵط½£¬²»ÊÇÆäËûÓïÑԵļ¯ÖÐÓª¡£ÒªÊÇÕâÑù£¬´ó¼Ò¶¼Ìí¼Ó×Ô¼ºµÄÓïÑÔ£¬Æñ²»ÊDZäµÃºÜ»ìÂÒ£¿Í¬Ê±ÎÒ²éÁËÒ»ÏÂwiki£¬ÉÏÃæ˵±¾µØÓïÑÔµÄÃû×ÖÓ¦·ÅÔÚname±êÇ©£¬ÆäËûÓïÑÔҪн¨×Ô¼ºµÄ±êÇ©¡£²»Öª´ó¼Ò¶Ô´ËÓкο´·¨£¿
====
Wang Chun
¸Ä
ÅúÁ¿¸Ä
д»úÆ÷ÈËÅúÁ¿¸Ä
====
yang
ÐãÒ»ÏÂÎÒºÍËûµÄ¶Ô»°£¨¸çµÄÓ¢ÓïÓдý¸Ä½ø°¡......£©
===
On 2011-12-11 03:33:32 UTC yangfl wrote:

> On 2011-12-10 04:09:44 UTC f22shift wrote:
>
> > On 2011-12-10 03:24:12 UTC yangfl wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > I notice you have edit many objects' name tag.It seems that you want to add the name in English to them. But please read the Wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name .Key "name" should ONLY be put the name in local language i.e. Chinese on.If you do want to do this, please add additional name tags like "name:en"(actually most of them have had this tag).This tag is already accepted by many apps and editors e.g. JOSM.
> > > Best regards
> > > yangfl
> > >
> > > ÎÒ×¢Òâµ½ÄúÒѾ­±à¼­ÁËÐí¶à¶ÔÏóµÄname±êÇ©¡£¿´ÆðÀ´ÄúÏëÒª¸øËüÃÇÌí¼ÓÓ¢ÎÄÃû×Ö¡£µ«ÇëÄúÔĶÁÒ»ÏÂhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name¡£¼ü"name"Ö»Ó¦·ÅÉϱ¾µØÓïÑÔµÄÃû×Ö¡£Èç¹ûÄúÕæµÄÏëÒªÕâÑù×ö£¬ÇëÌí¼Ó"name:en"¡£´ó¶àÊýµÄÈí¼þÒѾ­½ÓÊÜÁËÕâ¸ö±êÇ©¡£
> >
> >
> > Yes I did add Pinyin. I did not add the english name.
> >
> > I think it's important that Pinyin is added in addition to the Hanzi. These are not actual english translation but the romanization of how to pronounce the local language. Some may argue it's not even the local language which is Shanghainese.
> >
> > ALL Shanghai signs on the streets are in both Hanzi and Pinyin so this naming of the openstreetmaps reflects the local naming of roads. Yes, all of them. Minor roads, major street, highways all have Pinyin. Shanghai is highly westernized and it will be the trend for the future.
> > "152,050 officially registered foreigners in Shanghai as of 2009. Note that these statistics only show officially registered residents, and that the actual number of foreign citizens living in Shanghai is likely much higher." -wikipedia. There is a lot of people to benefit with the addition of the Pinyin.
> >
> > In applications such as MotionX Gps which uses openstreetmaps, it will only show the "name:" tag with no option for "name:en". This would be a hindrance for expats to have only a Hanzi naming system.
> >
> > There is plenty room on the map to have both Hanzi and Pinyin naming i believe. I've spent many many hours contributing to the Shanghai map(naming, fixing rd alignment, adding streets, adding POI). I believe this is the right course in naming the streets.
> >
> > Will Sheftick
>
> There is a national standard that define how to write romanization pronounce for any Hanzi.Also all the names should be translated to another language by their pronounce,not by their meanings.And you DID add english names.If you want add Pinyin,why did you use "Road" for "·" but not "Lu"?
> Many Shanghainese,like other people in other part in China,can easily tell the name in their dialect if they can read even when they can't understand the name's meaning.They just tell it by one Hanzi.
> The European countries which English is not their local language don't put the english name on the tag "name".I don't believe their road signs don't have english names and english-speakers are less than that in Shanghai.Hong Kong use this system because both Chinese and English are their official languages.Many Hongkongese can speak English fluently.And how many Shanghaiese can do this?
> MotionX Gps use Mapnik title.So it don't show the "name:en" tag.But please notice that MotionX Gps is not an navigation application.Navigation applications must use the osm source date.If both Chinese and English names are on the name tag,navigation applications won't know what their names are.
> I believe it's not a good idea to add English name on it.
> yangfl

the fluency in english in the same. the more local the less likely to
speak english in both hk and shanghai. both are trending towards a
bilingual society. just stop by any fast food restaurant.
i feel like your thinking is old school. just because it's not your
way doesn't make it wrong. the addition of pinyin adds and not
subtracts from the usefulness. it benefits the masses. openstreetmap
is about contributing.
====
Wang Chun
ËùÓÐÖйú´ó½¾³ÄÚµÄname×ֶνÔӦʹÓüò»¯ºº×Ö£¬°üÀ¨ÉÙÊýÃñ×åµØÇø£¬Õâûʲô¿É½²µÄ¡£

ËùÓÐ̨ž³¾³ƒÈµÄname×ֶνԑªÊ¹ÓÃÕýówh×Ö£¬ß@Ò²›]ÉõüN¿ÉÖvµÄ¡£

¸Û°ÄµØ…^µÄname×Ö¶ÎÒà‘ªÊ¹Ó÷±ów×Ö˜ËÓ›¡£
====
Sun Ning
¹ØÓÚÆ´ÒôµÄÎÊÌ⣬¿ÉÒԲο¼Õâ¸öwikiÌõÄ¿
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#China
ÕâÉÏÃæÓкÜÇå³þµÄ˵Ã÷

ÎÒ¾õµÃÖÁÉÙÕâ¸ö½×¶ÎÈç¹ûËûÊäÈëÖÐÎıȽÏÀ§ÄѵĻ°£¬Ê×ÏÈÒªÇóËû±£³ÖÒ»ÖÂÐÔ°É¡£²» ÅÂÓ¢ÎıêÇ©£¬¾ÍÅÂÄÇÖÖname:ÖÐɽ·(Zhongshan
Rd.)£¬ÕâÖÖ¶«Î÷×î¿ÉÅ£¬ÅúÁ¿´¦Àí ÆðÀ´Ò²ºÜÂé·³¡£Ö»ÒªÄܱ£³ÖÒ»ÖÂÐÔ£¬Î´À´Í¨¹ýAPI°Ñname¿½±´µ½name:en»¹ÊÇ¿ÉÐеġ£
====
yang
µ¹²»ÊÇËû²»»áÊäÈëÖÐÎĵÄÎÊÌ⣬¶øÊÇËûÔÚÖÐÎĺó×·¼ÓÁËÓ¢ÎÄÃû£¬´ó¼Ò¿ÉÒÔÈ¥ËûµÄ±à¼­ÀïΧ¹Û¡£
ÎÒÒѾ­¸æËßËû¿ÉÒÔʹÓÃname:en£¬¿ÉËû¾ÍÊDz»Ìý¡£
====
Wang Chun
±¯¾ç£¬ÅµľÍÊÇÕâÖÖ¡£
»¹ÊǵøúËûÕùÕâ¸öÊ£¬²»È»À¬»øÊý¾ÝÔ½À´Ô½¶à¡£ÎÒµÄÁ½¸ö¹Ûµã£º
1. ¹ØÓÚ¶àÓïÑÔname±êÇ©µÄʹÓÃOSMÓÐÃ÷È·µÄ¹æ·¶£¬¼ÈȻ˵osm is about
contributing£¬ÄÇôÕâÖÖ·½Ê½µÄ±à¼­²»ÄÜËãÊÇÕæÕýµÄcontributing
2. Êý¾ÝºÍäÖȾ·ÖÀ룬Êý¾Ýͨ¹ýmapnikÑùʽ±íäÖȾ³ÉµØͼ¡£²»ÒªÎªÁ˵ØͼµÄäÖȾ¶ø
±à¼­Êý¾Ý¡£²»ÅųýδÀ´»áÓеÚÈý·½·þÎñÈ«²¿ÓÃname:enäÖȾµÄµØͼ¡£×÷Ϊ ÄǸöʲô
ʲôGPSµÄÓû§£¬ËûÒ²¿ÉÒÔÏò³§ÉÌÈ¥·´Ó³Õâ¸öÎÊÌ⣬¶ø²»ÊÇÒÔÆÆ»µOSMÊý¾ÝÒ»ÖÂÐÔΪ´ú¼Û

PS: Ñîͬѧ»Ø¸´µÄʱºò¼ÇµÃccÒ»ÏÂtalk-cn
====
yang
àÞ£¬¾ÓÈ»ÍüÁËÕâ¸ö¡£¡£¡£
===
On 2011-12-11 05:21:55 UTC f22shift wrote:

> On 2011-12-11 04:43:56 UTC yangfl wrote:
>
> > On 2011-12-11 04:32:21 UTC f22shift wrote:
> >
> > > On 2011-12-11 04:21:05 UTC yangfl wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2011-12-11 03:48:49 UTC f22shift wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2011-12-11 03:33:32 UTC yangfl wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 2011-12-10 04:09:44 UTC f22shift wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 2011-12-10 03:24:12 UTC yangfl wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > I notice you have edit many objects' name tag.It seems that you want to add the name in English to them. But please read the Wiki page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name .Key "name" should ONLY be put the name in local language i.e. Chinese on.If you do want to do this, please add additional name tags like "name:en"(actually most of them have had this tag).This tag is already accepted by many apps and editors e.g. JOSM.
> > > > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > > > yangfl
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ÎÒ×¢Òâµ½ÄúÒѾ­±à¼­ÁËÐí¶à¶ÔÏóµÄname±êÇ©¡£¿´ÆðÀ´ÄúÏëÒª¸øËüÃÇÌí¼ÓÓ¢ÎÄÃû×Ö¡£µ«ÇëÄúÔĶÁÒ»ÏÂhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name¡£¼ü"name"Ö»Ó¦·ÅÉϱ¾µØÓïÑÔµÄÃû×Ö¡£Èç¹ûÄúÕæµÄÏëÒªÕâÑù×ö£¬ÇëÌí¼Ó"name:en"¡£´ó¶àÊýµÄÈí¼þÒѾ­½ÓÊÜÁËÕâ¸ö±êÇ©¡£
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes I did add Pinyin. I did not add the english name.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it's important that Pinyin is added in addition to the Hanzi. These are not actual english translation but the romanization of how to pronounce the local language. Some may argue it's not even the local language which is Shanghainese.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ALL Shanghai signs on the streets are in both Hanzi and Pinyin so this naming of the openstreetmaps reflects the local naming of roads. Yes, all of them. Minor roads, major street, highways all have Pinyin. Shanghai is highly westernized and it will be the trend for the future.
> > > > > > > "152,050 officially registered foreigners in Shanghai as of 2009. Note that these statistics only show officially registered residents, and that the actual number of foreign citizens living in Shanghai is likely much higher." -wikipedia. There is a lot of people to benefit with the addition of the Pinyin.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In applications such as MotionX Gps which uses openstreetmaps, it will only show the "name:" tag with no option for "name:en". This would be a hindrance for expats to have only a Hanzi naming system.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is plenty room on the map to have both Hanzi and Pinyin naming i believe. I've spent many many hours contributing to the Shanghai map(naming, fixing rd alignment, adding streets, adding POI). I believe this is the right course in naming the streets.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Will Sheftick
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a national standard that define how to write romanization pronounce for any Hanzi.Also all the names should be translated to another language by their pronounce,not by their meanings.And you DID add english names.If you want add Pinyin,why did you use "Road" for "·" but not "Lu"?
> > > > > > Many Shanghainese,like other people in other part in China,can easily tell the name in their dialect if they can read even when they can't understand the name's meaning.They just tell it by one Hanzi.
> > > > > > The European countries which English is not their local language don't put the english name on the tag "name".I don't believe their road signs don't have english names and english-speakers are less than that in Shanghai.Hong Kong use this system because both Chinese and English are their official languages.Many Hongkongese can speak English fluently.And how many Shanghaiese can do this?
> > > > > > MotionX Gps use Mapnik title.So it don't show the "name:en" tag.But please notice that MotionX Gps is not an navigation application.Navigation applications must use the osm source date.If both Chinese and English names are on the name tag,navigation applications won't know what their names are.
> > > > > > I believe it's not a good idea to add English name on it.
> > > > > > yangfl
> > > > >
> > > > > the fluency in english in the same. the more local the less likely to speak english in both hk and shanghai. both are trending towards a bilingual society. just stop by any fast food restaurant.
> > > > > i feel like your thinking is old school. just because it's not your way doesn't make it wrong. the addition of pinyin adds and not subtracts from the usefulness. it benefits the masses. openstreetmap is about contributing.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't mean adding the english name is completely wrong,I meant it just put in the wrong place.I'm discussing with the talk-cn group.I think we'll have a decision in a short time.
> > >
> > > my intention was to emulate hk. there is a reason they have pinyin in the default name tag. i still believe the pro's outweigh the cons. if openstreetmaps believe this is the wrong naming policy then they would have to adjust the HK maps to reflect as well. Since, HK is part of chinese territory it must be adjusted to only Hanzi by these standards. It should not have pinyin or the use of the word 'road' by your interpretation.
> >
> > It's true that HK is part of chinese territory,but in other aspects Hk is completely different from china mainland,not only in the history,the culture,the law and so on.For example,it's OK to criticizegov in hk,but if you do this in chins mainland,you might be in danger.So it's not surprising that the naming policy is different between china mainland and hk.The word 'road' is just an example that shows you are adding the engliah name.I hope you will stop this action.
>
> Still looking back into time it seems...you need to look at shanghai now and into the future.
>
> the fact is the naming reflects local signs used now. i have debated on whether using 'lu' or 'road' and decided on using a consistent naming system by emulating HK. i would advice you to also complain about HK having so called 'english' names in the default tag if you honestly believe you are right.
>
> you want a stop to this naming because it affects you soley it seems. you do not want to see the benefits for other people. this is becoming apparent.

Oh,you don't understand what I said at all...I don't mind adding
foreign languages,such as english,french,japanese,korean and so
on,dependent on what you like.You can also add pinyin to them.It's
doesn't matter.But PLEASE use the additional tags like most of the
other countries.Like the example in wiki,one object can has names in
many different languages,but just local language on "name".If you do
want add pinyin,please use "name:zh_pinyin" and type pinyin
properly,like this "Sh¨ªm¨¦n L¨´"
===
ÖÁ´ËËûÎÞÓïÁË
====
yang
ÄǸöʲôʲôGPSÎÒÒ²Óùý£¬ÊÇiphoneÉϵÄapp£¨ÎÒ´òÐÄÑÛÀïBS iphone£¬µ«ÄDz»ÊÇÎҵģ©¡£ÄÇÍæÒâ¾ø¶Ô²»Êǵ¼º½Èí¼þ£¬¶øÇÒ»¹Óе㲻×ðÖØosmµÄ±íÏÖ