[Talk-cn] (无主题)

[Sun Ning]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Re: [Talk-cn] (无主题)
Date: 	Thu, 19 Jan 2012 14:09:31 +0800
From: 	Sun Ning <classicning在gmail.com>
To: 	yang <mmyangfl在gmail.com>



这次应该基本上说服了。

On 2012-01-19 05:29:06 UTC Sunng wrote:

> On 2012-01-19 02:37:18 UTC f22shift wrote:
>
> > On 2012-01-19 02:09:39 UTC Sunng wrote:
> >
> > > Just noticed that you are working on Shanghai map, appending english names to the name attribute. I should tell you that your edit is breaking the consistency of osm data. For multilingual names, we have a complete guideline[1]. The English name should be put into "name:en".
> > >
> > > Putting mixed name in the attribute makes it difficult to process the data and also breaks the semantics of the attribute. If you are looking for a internationalized map, you can find information on this page[2]. Don't tagging for rendering.
> > >
> > > So please make the data in respect to the guideline and stop violating the rules. If you have any question, please let me know.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > > [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#China
> > > [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Internationalization
> >
> > Hi, I'm actually talking to the directors of OSM now. The consensus seems that the OSM community of the area would ultimately dictate how the naming is done.
> > This is why Hong Kong and Beijing(both tier 1 chinese cities like shanghai) has both multiple languages in the "name" tag. I'm aware of those links but I have talked to the head guys and had their final word of the matter. It is the community to decide.
> > I am looking to settle this amicably.
> > Do you know if there is a shanghai OSM community? If there is one and the majority prefer only hanzi then i will respect their wishes and pull off my shanghai edits. I was looking to benefit the masses but if my edits are at the expense of another group of people, then that's not my intent.
> > I will check to see if it's a simple process in the event the majority OSM members chooses hanzi.
> > Let me know if there is a community or have people pm their discontent.
> > Let's keep in touch.
> > Will
>
>
> First, Chinese is the only official and most common used language in Beijing and Shanghai. It's no doubt that using the official language would benefit most people. And most features are named with historical and cultural influence. Using a translated name as default could confuse people. You see some mixed name in Beijing because most of the map is made by foreigners in the beginning. But now more and more features has been translated to Chinese while the English name is also maintained in "name:en". That's the best practice in OSM. For Hong Kong, things are different. Both Chinese and English are official languages by law. So before the OSM finds a better solution to handle such situation, it's OK to put both name on. In Shanghai, we have a great amount of well maintained features for years. Our naming strategy is right on the Wiki page which is visible to everyone. That's the choice of the authors, the users and the community.
>
> Second, I know you want to improve the usability of Shanghai OSM by putting English name on. Thank you for the goal. However, you are now on the wrong way to internationalize the map. Putting translated name to the "name" tag makes the information redundant and ruins the semantics. This is particularly unfriendly to map maintainers and data users. I think it's even acceptable to put the English on the "name" tag when it's blank. But please don't combine multiple languages into a single field. OSM has created the tag "name:lg" for internationalization and localization, so why not follow the standard ?
>
> Be careful, I'm not persuading you to remove English names from the data. I just want you to know the right tag for translated names is "name:en". I know why you put the English name there is because the "name" tag the only renderable tag currently. But do remember the basic guideline of OSM: "Don't tag for the renderer"[1]. To improve the usability for non-Chinese users, please help us to maintain the name:en tag and push OSM to publish internationalized map asap.
>
> Thank you.
>
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
>

i'm awaiting response on how to remove all my edits. i hope it is
possible. this will simplify to rectify this situation.

在 2012年1月19日 下午12:18，Sun Ning <classicning在gmail.com> 写道：
> 我已经在讨论了，这个人太固执。
> 问题的关键是他意识不到这种在name上放两种语言的问题。
>
>
> 在 2012年1月18日 下午10:23，yang <mmyangfl在gmail.com> 写道：
>> f22shift依然在添加英文名，谁能发信息和他沟通？
>> 另：是不是应该仿照国外，制定适合本地的编辑规则？
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