[Talk-cn] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Speedflying lines on OSM

星期日四月 14 06:06:21 UTC 2024

这是针对 Pesho Ivanov 的邮件 
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2024-April/088526.html> 
的回应（ 
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2024-April/088527.html> 
）里面中文部分的原文

感觉挺有意思就转过来了，一并附上，核心还是鼓励大家积极proposal

-----

针对（2）和（3）

首先，就我个人而言我觉得这两点非常重要，因为OSM要求是Verifiable的，可见于[reply1-1]

如果其他在地面上的mapper也可以确认您的这条speedflying路线是否存在（当然，这可能需要mapper具有speedflying的经验，但全球这么多mapper中肯定会有其他有对应背景知识的人存在）

那或许我们可以把它当作和高尔夫、滑雪一样的运动来对待。因此我是倾向于批准它通过的。

而对于作为重要标志物的其他地理要素（如标志性的树），或许可以创建在route的关系内？

针对（8）

正因为OSM的技术是FOSS的，我们才能够有非常多且丰富的下游项目。理论上即使您不被允许绘制，也可以使用OSM的tiles做basemap，并维护一个只有speedflying 
route的同样使用OSM技术栈的数据库（就像OpenGeofiction一样），并且由于您的“OpenSpeedflyingMap”中只有flying 
route的数据，您要渲染出一个overlay也是很简单的。

（当然，这是建立在假设您的提议会被拒绝的基础上，但即使您将其添加到OSM的提议被拒绝，也依然可以尝试以开放知识的方式分享路线（我也很期待看到有人这么做，尽管我并非一个极限运动爱好者））

-------- 转发的消息 --------
主题:     Re: [OSM-talk] Speedflying lines on OSM
日期:     Sun, 14 Apr 2024 05:57:42 +0000
From:     快乐的老鼠宝宝 via talk <talk在openstreetmap.org>
回复地址:     快乐的老鼠宝宝 <laoshubaby在protonmail.com>
收件人:     Pesho Ivanov <ivanov在pesho.info>
抄送: talk在openstreetmap.org <talk在openstreetmap.org>

> 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground mapping -- very dependent on hazards like the relief and mapped OSM features such as cable cars, electricity lines, ski-pists ...  > 3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it 
can be improved by mappers
Firstly, personally, I find these two points very important, as OSM 
requires verifiability, as seen in [reply1-1].

If other mappers on the ground can also confirm the existence of your 
speedflying route (of course, this might require the mapper to have 
experience in speedflying, but among the many mappers worldwide, there 
are bound to be others with the relevant background knowledge),

Then perhaps we can treat it like sports such as golf and skiing. 
Therefore, I am inclined to vote approve it when raise a proposal.

As for other geographical features that serve as important landmarks 
(such as iconic trees), perhaps they can be created within the route's 
relation?

> 8) speedflying information is unavailable in any free (free as in FOSS) database, and for countries away from the Alps it is hard to find even private maps
Because the technology of OSM is FOSS (Free and Open Source Software), 
we are able to have a very large and rich array of downstream projects.
In theory, even if you are not allowed to draw those route, you can use 
OSM's tiles as a basemap and maintain a database that only contains 
speedflying routes, using the OSM technology stack (just like 
OpenGeofiction).
And since your "OpenSpeedflyingMap" would only contain data on flying 
routes, it would be quite simple to render an overlay.

(Of course, this is based on the assumption that your proposal is 
rejected, but even if your addition to OSM is turned down, you could 
still try to share routes in an open knowledge way (I am also looking 
forward to seeing someone do this, even though I am not an extreme 
sports enthusiast))

[reply1-1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability

LaoshuBaby (aka. 快乐的老鼠宝宝)

2024年4月14日 星期日 下午 1:31，Pesho Ivanov <ivanov在pesho.info> 来信：

> Hi OSM contributors,  > > As a pilot and a contributor to FOSS, I want to contribute 
available speedflying lines to OSM for the good of the pilots and 
everyone who potentially intersects with them on the ground (skiers, 
property owners, forest rangers, etc.). Following the aviation 
recommendations [2], I first want to first discuss this idea with the 
OSM community. > > Speedflying is a type of paragliding which is mostly 
about proximity flying (very low over the ground) or even speedriding 
(simultaneous skiing and flying). In order to share information between 
each other, pilots are plotting speedflying lines over maps (see [1] for 
an aggregation of lines which the authors agree on importing to OSM). > 
 > The Aviation recommendations in OSM [2] mostly ban airspace 
information in OSM and I agree with this premise — since aviation 
information is mostly independent from Earth mapping and use. 
Nevertheless, unlike aviation, speedflying is a sport of flying short 
downward lines, staying zero to tens of meters/feet above ground, which 
makes the whole sport primarily dictated by the relief and what sticks 
out of it (incl. buildings, ski slopes, cable cars, electricity lines, 
etc). This makes speedflying lines very different from any aviation 
routes, and rather resemble climbing routes in OSM [3]. > > Next, I want 
to argument my opinion that speedflying lines belong to OSM by 
commenting on all the rational points in the Aviation wiki page [2]: > 
1) speedflying lines often coincide with existing features, like a 
river, ridge, valley. speedflying routes are mainly determined by the 
relief > 2) speedflying lines are not orthogonal to on-the-ground 
mapping -- very dependent on hazards like the relief and mapped OSM 
features such as cable cars, electricity lines, ski-pists (mostly 
forbidden to speedride or land on them), forests, protected areas (often 
forbidden to fly over), and also reusing takeoffs and landings appearing 
on OSM [4]; speedflying lines are mostly independent of other aviation > 
3) speedflying lines are always observable from the ground and it can be 
improved by mappers > 4) speedflying routes are generally not governed 
by authorities and the available maps are spread among private self-made 
google maps (owned by speedflyers all of whom I asked, were very 
passionate about importing to OSM since they stop maintaining them) > 5) 
speedflying lines are generally short and in the mountains so they 
rarely intersect something when plotted on 2D (mostly with a ski-pist or 
a cable car) > 6) speedflying lines are of significance for skiers who 
may share or neighbor takeoffs, landings or offpist ski-riding, as well 
as of interest of property owners of nearby huts, restaurants, rangers, 
etc. > 7) speedflying is fastly growing in popularity, there are schools 
on speedflying specifically, and access to information is needed for the 
safety of the pilots and the surroundings > 8) speedflying information 
is unavailable in any free (free as in FOSS) database, and for countries 
away from the Alps it is hard to find even private maps > 9) speedflying 
lines are easily plotted in 2D since most of the flying is close to 
ground (altitude depending mostly on the glide and the level of 
experience); 3D does not add much information > 10) speedflying lines do 
not intersect with regulated airspaces, do not depend on air traffic, 
runways or other aviation (other than sharing takeoffs and landings with 
paragliders) so they won't flood the existing OSM maps > 11) the weather 
is a random factor that may make a line not flyable, or may require 
higher caution, etc. but it can hardly change the possible routes > 12) 
the low glide and the high sink-rate limits speedflying to roughly the 
planned route; unlike paragliding, improvising with takeoffs and 
landings is almost impossible (experts may say that they "found a line" 
which is a very precious knowledge) > 13) speedflying information is not 
published officially so the main information contributors are sole 
pilots who are willing to contribute their knowledge to the community 
(e.g. the author of [1]) > > I hope to have convinced you that despite 
of technically flying, speedflying is a dictated by the Earth makes it a 
natural match with OSM. I will be glad to receive your feedback. > > [1] 
speedflyingmap.ch > [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Aviation > 
[3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Climbing > [4] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dfree_flying > > Best, > 
Pesho Ivanov, PhD > Pennsylvania State University > > 
_______________________________________________ > talk mailing list > 
talk在openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

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