[Talk-cz] [Imports] CzechAddress Import

Dalibor Jelínek dalibor na dalibor.cz
Středa Březen 26 05:43:40 UTC 2014


Hello,
so, after a long debate here at imports mailing list, Czech mailing list talk-cs and with Serge Wroclawski, 
we have reduced our tagging plans considerably to comply with the request not to import anything which could be expressed using border polygons.

Therefore we will not import:
addr:suburb (neither addr:borough)
addr:city
addr:country
These tags will be used only in rare cases where the address node lies outside of its respective polygon border.

We will even erase these tags from existing address nodes during the import as we want to have all Czech addresses in the same format.

We simply can not omit adding addr:place as it cannot be expressed by the border polygon. It is vital for searching by Nominatim in small villages where there are no street names. It would be very handy if Nominatim could search for address in format "addr:place addr:housenumber" even when the addr:streetname exists but this is another topic.

We would have to import suburb borders in the future as they do not exist now.

The English description page about our import was updated to reflect current plan:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_adres_z_RUIAN

We believe that there is nothing stopping us from beginning the import now.
If you think otherwise then please let us know. 

Thank you.

Regards,
 Dalibor (chrabros)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Hoffmann [mailto:lonvia na denofr.de]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 7:53 AM
> To: pv na propsychology.cz
> Cc: imports na openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Spam] Re: [Imports] [Talk-cz] CzechAddress Import
> 
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 11:28:01PM +0100, Petr Vejsada wrote:
> > Dne St 12. března 2014 21:31:38, Martin Koppenhoefer napsal(a):
> >
> > > This means you can add the name of the administrative district, but
> > > you do not have to, it still remains a valid and unambiguous
> > > address. IMHO you shouldn't tag this district to every housenumber.
> > > "Vinohrady" is redundant information in this case and not necessary
> > > for the location to be found. Or are there maybe also other "130 00
> > > Praha 3 - xy" where xy is not "Vinohrady"? Also for Boleslavska?
> >
> > Aaaah, we are back again in the discussion about addr:place. It's
> > neverending...
> >
> > You're right, in _this_ case, address without Vinohrady is valid. But:
> >
> > - people knows, i'm living in Vinohrady. They usually don't know, i'm
> > living in Praha 3
> >
> > - Nominatim really cann't find the house without tag addr:place.
> > "Libochovany 129" or "Vinohrady 1989" - nothing found. It was my
> > primary motivation to run this import - posibility to find what i'm searching
> for.
> 
> Alas, that won't change after the import, at least for this particular address.
> For technical reasons, Nominatim can only support either a street address or
> a conscription number. So, it will work fine in small villages that have only
> conscription numbers but not in Prague where there are both.
> But that is a missing feature in Nominatim.
> I believe that your tagging in this case is completely correct. The moment you
> add a addr:conscription_number tag, there should be an addr:place tag with
> the name of the place the number belongs to. Just like there should be an
> addr:street tag when addr:street_number is added. It has exactly the same
> function: relate the number to the object that determines the address.
> 
> > There is some redundancy, but i don't think enormous ...
> >
> > There is polygon of country boundaries - addr:country=CZ is redundant.
> > We explained several times, why to use this tag Yes, it's about
> > geocoders. It's a part of address.
> >
> > There are polygons of city boundaries - addr:city=* is redundant. City
> > is part of address.
> >
> > There are NO polygons of "cast obce", inexistant boundaries we can't
> > import into OSM - addr:place=* is not redundant. addr:place is not
> cadastral place.
> > addr:place is nececessary part of address, if there is no
> > addr:suburb/borough/...
> 
> addr:suburb/borough is not the same as addr:place. Please don't use one in
> place of the other. Always add addr:place. addr:suburb/borough is
> redundant in the same way addr:city is. Most of the time it can be
> determined from the boundaries. It is only really useful where the postal
> address differs from the admin boundaries. (Happens more often than one
> would like.)
> 
> If you still want to add it, addr:suburb should be sufficient, no need to invent
> a new tag. I'd interpret 'suburb' here just as: the part of the address that
> describes a part of the city. And I believe that fits.
> 
> > Agree, it's a little bit diferent. This is amenity point, not address point.
> > Restaurant is in house (sometimes, garden restaurant is not) and the
> > house usually has their's own address point.
> >
> > > I don't even need to mention what borough (or county) the object is
> > > in for the same reasons.
> >
> > > Adding in the other fields is just a matter for a geocoder.
> 
> That argument doesn't really work. Every geocoder needs to be able to
> process boundaries because 95% of the addresses don't have a complete set
> of addr:* tags. And once you have boundary support, adding additional
> support for the addr:* tags doesn't really add much. Incidentally, that is the
> reason why Nominatim still sucks at processing most address tags.
> 
> Sarah
> 
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