[Talk-dk] Registrering af gravhøje
leiflodahl at gmail.com
Søn Jan 14 19:53:26 UTC 2018
I can understand that Michael contacted you regarding my edits. That is the
reason I reaised the matter here on the Danish mailing list. Please note
that Michael did not use this list before I openned the question. I also
beleive that we are able so solve things our selves in the local community.
I can understand that you haven't read earlier posting where we have
discussed the insulting language Michael is using in his comments. Comments
that from my oppinion is scaring away especially new mappers. We need new
mappers and comment in such language is not motivating for new members of
It is obvious that you have the impression that I'm not willing to listen.
Thats a wrong impression and a glanse down this list will show that I have
asked questions when I was in doubt. When Michaels comments has become too
insulting for me, I have also asked for help on the list as descriped in
the code of conduct.
I have several years of experience in free software and free data
communities, and what I have learned is to listen. If you look at this
thread Michael is the one that doesn't listen. Every body else agrees that
I'm allowed to do what I'm doing. If you read the terms and conditions, the
agency of cultural enheritance actually encourages people and companies to
use their data.
In my and many other community members, there is no doubt that my mapping
is legal. Every body else than Michael considers this whole discussion a
waste of time.
Even though, I have today asked the agency to answer the question wheater
I'm allowed to use their data set to manually map the cultural artifacts.
Until then I will continue my work.
2018-01-14 19:55 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>:
> I've used Google Translate to read this discussion. The important
> points I wish to comment on are:
> 1. Leif uses data from "kulturarv.dk" to add information to OSM. He ask
> others to leave him alone, and not interfere with his mapping.
> 2. Michael doubts that this is a legal use of the data, and also claims
> that Leif's edits have been occasionally detrimental to OSM data quality
> ("Du ændrer f.eks.ofte på ting som jeg tidligere har lavet og ikke altid
> til det bedre.").
> 3. Soren says that data is made publicly available in order for us to
> use it ("#1 at de skal bruges og sættes i spil").
> I agree that this seems to be neither an import nor a mechanical edit,
> because Leif claims that he calls up each place individually in the
> editor. But, if Michael is right, then Leif does engage in "armchair
> editing" and Leif believes that his data source is superior, making
> changes where perhaps the local mappers know better. I cannot judge this
> becasue I don't know the situation, but Leif should certainly respect
> data contributed by local mappers, and aim not to break anything.
> The main point here, in my opinion, is the license question. The use of
> kulturarv.dk must be stopped immediately, until it is 100% clear that
> they are ok with their data being used on OpenStreetMap. This requires:
> * either that their web site clearly says the data is public domain (or
> some similar text)
> * or we get a message from them that says "yes, you can use our data to
> improve OpenStreetMap".
> In copyright law, the default is "you are not allowed to use it". So if
> there's no clear message that says yes, then it's no.
> It is wrong to assume, like Soren does, that any data made public by the
> government or a cultural organisation on a web site is automatically
> free for us to use; there could be many reasons why they might want to
> allow the public to see things on their web site, but they do not want
> someone to use the data on OpenStreetMap where it might not even be
> obvious where the data comes from and where the data is redistributed.
> At OpenStreetMap, we are very conservative with the data licensing - if
> we cannot be 100% sure that the data is ok to use, then we DO NOT USE
> IT. We don't discuss what the owner of the data might have wanted or not
> - we ask them, and if the response is not a clear yes, then for us it is
> a no.
> If it should turn out that kulturarv.dk does not allow us to use their
> data, then all 10,000 edits made by Leif will have to be removed.
> Soren also mentions the SDFE imagery and asks if that is ok to use in
> OSM. I have no idea - but for the imagery, the same rules count as for
> data. There must be a clear "yes", else it's a "no". The fact that
> certain imagery is available in iD and JOSM does not necessarily mean it
> has been cleared for use in OSM - both editors use repositories that
> everyone can contribute to, and to my knowledge neither the JOSM not the
> iD development team have good enough knowledge of Danish to actually
> review the license pages first-hand.
> One final point. Leif feels harassed by other community members who
> check what he's doing ("nogen der er på nakken af mig hele tiden"). I
> understand that it can be stressful if one's actions are watched; but
> here in OpenStreetMap, we all want the map to be good AND we want
> OpenStreetMap's image to be good. Even today, some commercial map
> vendors say: "Ugh, OpenStreetMap is full of piracy and stolen map data,
> don't use it, it is illegal..." - of course that's wrong, and people
> just say it so they can sell their "clean" data better, but this is an
> example why we must be extremely careful with copyright. We do not want
> to give anyone a reason to say: OSM is a pirated map. And therefore, we
> must watch what others are doing, and if someone makes the map worse, or
> risks to ruin our good image by using data that is not suitably
> licensed, it is everyone's duty to prevent that from happening.
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frederik at remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> Talk-dk mailing list
> Talk-dk at openstreetmap.org
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