[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops

[Brian Prangle]

Matthijs

Please don't alter anything in the City Centre without a ground survey. I
spent a lot of time surveying and reworking all this when the new bus
routing system for the City Centre Interchange was reconfigured about a
year ago. As far as I am aware all names in OSM in the City Centre
correspond to ground truth. NapTAN data for the City Centre is way out of
date and should not be used. You might  find some old NapTAN nodes that I
didn't get round to deleting - they can be ignnored as they no longer exist
- I think I kept some of them from nostalgia- having spent lots of my life
waiting for buses there!

Regards

Brian

Regards

Brian


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 2:21 AM, Matthijs Melissen <info at matthijsmelissen.nl
> wrote:

> On 17 November 2013 23:19, Rob Nickerson <rob.j.nickerson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > My main concern is that I'm not convinced that bus stops even have a
> "name"
> > in the UK.
>
> There seems to be indeed some variation in what name is being used.
> But there is some logic.
>
> > For example, one I just looked at in Coventry has the words
> > "Earlsdon Ave North <linebreak> Hearsall Common" on the sign, but on the
> > National Express Coventry website it is referred to as "Hearsall Common,
> > EARLSDON AVE NTH".
> > Perhaps we should ask Centro what they consider the "name" to be.
>
> You picked a tricky example, because there is both a stop called
> 'Earlsdon Avenue North' on the street 'Hearsall Common' and a stop
> called 'Hearsall Common' on the street 'Earlsdon Avenue North'. To
> make it even trickier, line 12 uses one of these in one direction, and
> the other in the other direction. Let's focus for now on the stop on
> Earlsdon Ave North.
>
> Here is the naptan data:
> http://transport.data.gov.uk/doc/stop-point/43001052002
>
> In other words, we have:
> - name: Hearsall Common
> - indicator: adj
> - street: EARLSDON AVE NTH
> - nptg locality: Earlsdon
> - town: COVENTRY
>
> I have seen the following names being used:
> - Name on bus stop: "Earlsdon Ave North <linebreak> Hearsall Common"
> - National Express: "Hearsall Common, EARLSDON AVE NTH"
> - Network West Midlands, in time tables: "Earlsdon, (adj), Hearsall Common"
> - Network West Midlands, in planner: "Earlsdon, (adj), Hearsall Common 1"
> - Network West Midlands, at Live Travel Map: "Hearsall Common at
> EARLSDON AVE NTH"
> - Network West Midlands, at Live Travel Map when displaying time
> tables: "Hearsall Common"
> - NetNav (Android app): "Earlsdon, Hearsall Common 1"
> - Network WM (Android app), on map: "Hearsall Common, EARLSDON AVE NTH"
> - Network WM (Android app), at departure times: "Hearsall Common"
>
> In other words, everyone uses some permutation of the Naptan data.
> Often it is chosen to include the street name, because there might
> exist multiple stops with the same common name. These stops with the
> same common name are sometimes even close together and/or on the same
> route.
>
> This problem does not occur in most other places. London and Cambridge
> have no duplicate common names. Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield,
> Newcastle and Leeds include the street name already in the Common Name
> (like "Hearsall Common/Earlsdon Ave Nth" or "Earlsdon Ave Nth Hearsall
> Common"). The only other place I found which the same problem is
> Oxford. The community there has chosen to use the common name and
> ignores the street name (which leads to duplicate stop names on the
> map).
>
> Perhaps we should just follow the on-the-ground rule, and use what is
> written on the bus stops?
>
> > As for adding the names to the map, can one of the locals please explain
> > what the difference between SA and SQ1 is on the following example:
> >
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.48391/-1.89768&layers=T
>
> I think these have SQ1 now.
>
> > Looking on google streetview, I do not see any reference to SQ1 (although
> > the text is a bit blurry). There is reference to "City Centre SA". Maybe
> SA
> > replaces SQ1?
>
> I think it is the other way around. The shelters on Google Streetview
> are the old style shelters, so probably the name has been changed from
> SA to SQ1.
>
> > Having said this, I just checked out the travel websites and
> > they still use SQ1. On the other hand new maps use SA instead:
> >
> > http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/web/FILES/BhamCityCentre.pdf
>
> October 2011 is not really a new map anymore... Corporation Street is
> now closed for buses, so the routes are quite different now. Here is
> the 2012 version:
>
> http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/web/FILES/Maps/BCCI_Transport_Guide_June_13_Part2.jpg
> Indeed all abbreviations have been changed. The new abbreviations
> correspond to what is on the bus stops.
>
> -- Matthijs
>
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