[Talk-GB] OS 7th Series offset

Christopher Osborne chris.gaijin at gmail.com
Wed Oct 7 09:05:19 BST 2009


Regarding the offset Shaun observed - the OS carried out a retriangulation
exercise that only finished in 1962. I've been off list for a while so
excuse me if I'm incorrect, but these are 50 year old out of copyright maps
from 1959 before retriangulation finished?

Further you are away from the datum origin the bigger the error incurred, so
may explain the offset for the Scottish scans?

You are probably already ahead of me and compensated but OSTN02 is a
transformation which is supposed to deal with this.

Great work Steve et al

Christopher Osborne
www.itoworld.com
07533 188 262

On Oct 6, 2009 9:49 PM, <talk-gb-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

Send Talk-GB mailing list submissions to
       talk-gb at openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
       http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
       talk-gb-request at openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
       talk-gb-owner at openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
     (OJ W)
  2. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
     (Peter Childs)
  3. Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data
     contributors (Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists))
  4. Re: Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM  data
     contributors (Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists))
  5. Re: Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup  site
     (Jason Cunningham)
  6. Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Steve Chilton)
  7. Re: Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Frankie Roberto)
  8. Re: Ordnance Survey 7th series available (Shaun McDonald)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:08:13 +0100
From: OJ W <ojwlists at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode
       lookup  site
To: osm-gb <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID:
       <89699a0a0910060608r450ed5c9r1d899ad99204e67b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

First strike! [jobcentre-plus seem to have been using this data].  Two
more, and we should cut-off the government's internet connection ;)


On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM, David Earl <david at frankieandshadow.com>
wrote:
>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/royal_mail_ernest_marples_postcodes/



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:24:23 +0100
From: Peter Childs <pchilds at bcs.org>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode
       lookup  site
To: OJ W <ojwlists at googlemail.com>
Cc: osm-gb <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID:
       <a2de01dd0910060624v65e45250s483434b6b0395898 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

2009/10/6 OJ W <ojwlists at googlemail.com>:
> First strike! [jobcentre-plus seem to have been using this data]. ?Two
> more, and we should cut-off the government's internet connection ;)
>

Actually I think its more along the line of a company that knows its
head is on the line.

The SCO stuff a few years ago spring to mind.

I'm wondering who has actually made there subscription charge for this
data, and I wonder how long it will be before loads of Local Councils
are having trouble with Council Tax and deciding which school is the
closest.....

Peter

>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM, David Earl <david at frankieandshadow.com>
wrote:
>>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/royal_mail_ernest_marples_postcodes/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:04:26 +0100
From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)" <ajrlists at googlemail.com>
Subject: [Talk-GB] Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for
       OSM data        contributors
To: <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID:

 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHFIvKMsnZiQaZAAAAABxJAAABAAAABBRF9JT8fMSpGg5IzXlaJmAQAAAAA=@
googlemail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

We are all used to drawing in difficult or far away features by referring to
the NPE 1" to 1 mile out of copyright Ordnance Survey mapping in JOSM or
Potlatch. Its great for long linear features but for accurate stuff, like
field boundaries and detailed information about the landscape, especially in
rural areas, it's not enough.

Enter the OS 1:25,000 scale (two and a half inches to the mile)
1st/Provisional edition [1]. Which I'm happy to announce is starting to make
an appearance for the project.

There are two parts to the availability currently. One focused on providing
it via WMS for use in JOSM and the other as tiles for Potlatch.

The first full sheet (NX88 NW or Dumfries [2]) is available for you to try
out in JOSM [3]. Just add the URL as a custom WMS.

For the Potlatch tiles RichardF has worked up some code magic that should
automate the process of rectification and tiling. It may take me a little
time to get that running and the tiles will probably be served from the new
dev machine which is not quite ready yet so there will be a further
announcement on this.

Both the WMS and google format tiles use the same rectification data.

The time consuming part is manually obtaining the pixel co-ordinates for the
corner gridlines of each sheet (which I have to scan in two halves on my A3
scanner). It has to be done manually to get the best accuracy, which should
be generally 10m once available in Potlatch or JOSM. i.e. significantly
better than was possible with NPE, though note that its still only as good
as the OS originally survey it in the late 19th century. Anyway, it means
that this part is a slow process.

Currently I have around 15% of the published sheets with more arriving every
day. More would be welcome, either by way of donated maps, scans, or funds
to purchase more from retail suppliers (higher cost - usually about ?3 to ?8
each). With 2027 sheets in the series cost is a factor for how quickly I can
grow the set.

I'll keep the index updated on the wiki with progress (both obtaining and
scanning/tiling) so look out for your area turning up. The majority of the
sheets I have are for England and Wales. Scotland never had full coverage
from this series.

Cheers

Andy

[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Provisional/First_Edition"
[2] "http://osm.org/go/evY0@6R"
[3]
"http://warper.freemap.in/layers/wms/1?request=GetMap&version=1.1.1&styles=&
format=image/png&srs=epsg:4326&exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage&"





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:07:02 +0100
From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\)" <ajrlists at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability
       for OSM data contributors
To: <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID:

 <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAOKaD4mR3JBOrEpRon92nMgBANp/H2q5kHFIvKMsnZiQaZAAAAABxJAAABAAAABEDam69XqSSJsRWqpdr08mAQAAAAA=@
googlemail.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

And in my haste I omitted to thank Chippy for his excellent map
rectification/warping and WMS facilities. Apologies Tim.

Cheers

Andy

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [mailto:ajrlists at googlemail.com]
>Sent: 06 October 2009 3:04 PM
>To: 'talk-gb at openstreetmap.org'
>Subject: Announcement - OS 1:25k mapping availability for OSM data
>contributors
>
>We are all used to drawing in difficult or far away features by referring
>to the NPE 1" to 1 mile out of copyright Ordnance Survey mapping in JOSM or
>Potlatch. Its great for long linear features but for accurate stuff, like
>field boundaries and detailed information about the landscape, especially
>in rural areas, it's not enough.
>
>Enter the OS 1:25,000 scale (two and a half inches to the mile)
>1st/Provisional edition [1]. Which I'm happy to announce is starting to
>make an appearance for the project.
>
>There are two parts to the availability currently. One focused on providing
>it via WMS for use in JOSM and the other as tiles for Potlatch.
>
>The first full sheet (NX88 NW or Dumfries [2]) is available for you to try
>out in JOSM [3]. Just add the URL as a custom WMS.
>
>For the Potlatch tiles RichardF has worked up some code magic that should
>automate the process of rectification and tiling. It may take me a little
>time to get that running and the tiles will probably be served from the new
>dev machine which is not quite ready yet so there will be a further
>announcement on this.
>
>Both the WMS and google format tiles use the same rectification data.
>
>The time consuming part is manually obtaining the pixel co-ordinates for
>the corner gridlines of each sheet (which I have to scan in two halves on
>my A3 scanner). It has to be done manually to get the best accuracy, which
>should be generally 10m once available in Potlatch or JOSM. i.e.
>significantly better than was possible with NPE, though note that its still
>only as good as the OS originally survey it in the late 19th century.
>Anyway, it means that this part is a slow process.
>
>Currently I have around 15% of the published sheets with more arriving
>every day. More would be welcome, either by way of donated maps, scans, or
>funds to purchase more from retail suppliers (higher cost - usually about
>?3 to ?8 each). With 2027 sheets in the series cost is a factor for how
>quickly I can grow the set.
>
>I'll keep the index updated on the wiki with progress (both obtaining and
>scanning/tiling) so look out for your area turning up. The majority of the
>sheets I have are for England and Wales. Scotland never had full coverage
>from this series.
>
>Cheers
>
>Andy
>
>[1] "http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Provisional/First_Edition"
>[2] "http://osm.org/go/evY0@6R"
>[3]
>"http://warper.freemap.in/layers/wms/1?request=GetMap&version=1.1.1&styles=
>&format=image/png&srs=epsg:4326&exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage&"





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 15:16:44 +0100
From: Jason Cunningham <jamicuosm at googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode
       lookup  site
To: osm-gb <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
Message-ID:
       <897b959f0910060716j5300de97v32adb0a8b4f088f6 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

2009/10/6 OJ W <ojwlists at googlemail.com>

> First strike! [jobcentre-plus seem to have been using this data].  Two
> more, and we should cut-off the government's internet connection ;)
>

Its not the governments jobcentreplus website, its www.jobcentreproplus.com
(note the pro). Its "a clean rewrite of the Job Centre Plus government
website, allowing job seekers to quickly and easily find jobs by keyword
within their local area, and subscribe to email alerts to future additions."
The site was a good example of why we should have free access to postcode
data. I came across a link to a presentation they gave at
rewirdedstate.org"national hack the government day" -
http://blip.tv/file/1853120/

I wonder if Royal Mail would go after councils and government departments
who have failed to pay or keep up with their subscriptions. Its probably not
a good idea to send threatening letters to bodies who could successfully
lobby for things to be changed.

Hopefully this might result in some advertising for free-the-postcode, and
its aims

Jason
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20091006/25b0b3c9/attachment-0001.htm

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:12:54 +0100
From: Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>
Subject: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
To: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
Cc: announce at openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
       <ED161E4EC1B411458949EEA28C5590150C0D8172 at MDX-CLX-DC1.uni.mdx.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I am pleased to announce that the first of the OS 7th series
out-of-copyright maps are available for use in OSM.
Very brief details of the sheets and how to access them is available on the
wiki at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/7th_Series
Thanks to TimSC for rectification work and setting up for WMS for JOSM, and
to Richard for the Potlatch link.
Those available are just the first of the 23 that are out-of-copyright right
now, mainly in Scotland. More shortly.
This is an ongoing project, and more sheets will be available to use a) as
they come out of copyright, and b) are rectified and tiled.
Any problems please contact me.

Cheers
STEVE



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:24:11 +0100
From: Frankie Roberto <frankie at frankieroberto.com>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
To: Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>
Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
Message-ID:
       <1350f7a40910061324s3202cb4n637b1cdb37c375ba at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

2009/10/6 Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>

I am pleased to announce that the first of the OS 7th series
> out-of-copyright maps are available for use in OSM.
> Very brief details of the sheets and how to access them is available on
the
> wiki at
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/7th_Series
>

Wow, they are beautiful maps!

I've just had a go at using them as a background in Potlatch, looking at
Campbeltown. There are plenty of roads on the map that aren't on OSM.  Is it
reasonably safe to assume that these probably do still exist, and can be
added to OSM (with appropriate source tag?)

Frankie

--
Frankie Roberto
Experience Designer, Rattle
0114 2706977
http://www.rattlecentral.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20091006/23b4db2b/attachment-0001.htm

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 21:36:05 +0100
From: Shaun McDonald <shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk>
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ordnance Survey 7th series available
To: Frankie Roberto <frankie at frankieroberto.com>
Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org, Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1AD83A27-1032-4CB5-8125-1B798010BB3D at shaunmcdonald.me.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


On 6 Oct 2009, at 21:24, Frankie Roberto wrote:

> 2009/10/6 Steve Chilton <S.L.Chilton at mdx.ac.uk>
>
> I am pleased to announce that the first of the OS 7th series out-of-
> copyright maps are available for use in OSM.
> Very brief details of the sheets and how to access them is available
> on the wiki at
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/7th_Series
>
> Wow, they are beautiful maps!
>
> I've just had a go at using them as a background in Potlatch,
> looking at Campbeltown. There are plenty of roads on the map that
> aren't on OSM.  Is it reasonably safe to assume that these probably
> do still exist, and can be added to OSM (with appropriate source tag?)
>

Press b in Potlatch to get the source tag added.

I have noticed that the status of some of the roads seem to have
changed in Dumfries, so I think that local knowledge would be useful
for this one.

I've noticed that there is an offset in Dumfries that is noticeable
(the current data is based on GPS). I've not checked to see how
widespread the problem is.

Shaun

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20091006/cda23e72/attachment.htm
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 2433 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20091006/cda23e72/attachment.bin

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb


End of Talk-GB Digest, Vol 37, Issue 6
**************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20091007/5715ec7c/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Talk-GB mailing list