[Talk-GB] Customised Maps (was OSM Analysis New Data and bot)

Thu Jun 16 22:24:11 BST 2011

Hi Adam,
The kothic system that Richard pointed you to is well worth a look - it
renders very pretty maps.  I think it uses a styling language similar to the
'carto' one I talked about.  I haven't looked at how you actually customise
it without setting up your own server yet though.

If you want to have a look at mapnik and OSM, the instructions on the OSM
wiki are a good place to start
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapnik#Authentication_failed>).

The biggest difference between the mapnik tutorial that you used is that
yours used data from a 'shape file'.   The OSM style uses a postgresql
database to hold the main OSM data, and a number of shape files for
coastlines, built up areas etc.

I find the postgresql bit the tricky bit - follow the instructions on
Mapnik/PostGIS to set that up (linked from the Mapnik page).

Have fun!

Graham.

On 16 June 2011 21:09, Adam Hoyle <adam.lists at dotankstudios.com> wrote:

> Hey Graham,
>
> All very helpful information, thank you very very much :-)
>
> I just managed to figure out where I got to. I basically followed the
> tutorial here:
> http://trac.mapnik.org/wiki/GettingStarted
>
> to save you clicking it, I haven't even got the osm stylesheet yet, but I
> have rendered a rather sweet view of the entire world. Not too shabby, and
> not exactly advanced, but I was quite happy.
>
> So any pointers for the biggest learning curve bit? ;-)
>
> Maybe I should wait for the thang Richard mentioned, although I'd love to
> get something at a more local level than the entire world rendered in
> Mapnik, just so I can tick that off my to-do list :-)
>
> ttfn,
>
> Adam
>
> On 15 Jun 2011, at 22:41, Graham Jones wrote:
>
> Hi Adam,
> No problem - these lists have been a bit busy over the last few days....
>
> If you have got mapnik running and generating maps using the 'standard' osm
> stylesheet, you have got over the biggest learning curve.    You will
> probably have noticed that the 'standard' osm stylesheet is very complicated
> - this is because it renders lots of different information differently at
> different zoom levels.
>
> If you want to add contours, it is possible to do that by importing the
> contours into your postgresql database, and modifying the standard osm style
> file to plot them.   I have a crude example of this at
> http://code.google.com/p/ntmisc/source/browse/#svn%2Fkefalonia_map - all
> my changes compared to the standard osm style file are in the 'inc'
> directory - I added a file that defines the style for the contour line
> drawing, and also changed some other files to include the new one - search
> the osm wiki for contours to see how to get contours into your postgresql
> database.   I did a little write up on how I did this (but not much detail I
> am afraid) at http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/04/kefalonia-map.html.
>
> To work on building up a mapnik stylesheet from scratch to get a better
> understanding of how it works, I would suggest starting on a simple
> transparent overlay to display over other map tiles.   I put together a few
> slides on my version of how to render map data with mapnik, which you can
> see at http://maps3.org.uk/doc/index.html.   If you look at
> http://maps3.org.uk/osm_opendata, the 'about' link has a bit of a
> descripton of how I produced the overlays for that map (another example of a
> very simple overlay).
>
> Both of the above examples use the standard xml stylesheet for mapnik.   I
> have been experimenting with a different way of producing the xml stylesheet
> using a different language and a pre-processor called 'carto'.   I did a
> little write up at
> http://nerdytoad.blogspot.com/2011/05/rendering-openstreetmap-data-using.htmlon where I have got to - It is much less complete than the full OSM
> stylesheet, and I think I need to learn some of the tricks used in that
> style to make the map look better, but I think it is simpler to see what it
> is doing, so I think I will stick with this for simple things.
>
> Hope that gets you started.   Let me know if you get stuck and I will see
> what I can do.   The mapnik-users mailing list is a good place to ask for
> help too.
>
> Regards
>
>
> Graham.
>
> On 15 June 2011 14:22, Adam Hoyle <adam.lists at dotankstudios.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Graham,
>>
>> Sorry, I got a bit over excited and subscribed to tons of OSM mailing
>> lists and so totally missed your awesome reply :-(
>>
>> Sorry if I wasn't clear - I've successfully got Mapnik installed (did it a
>> week or three ago and it was pretty painless as far as I recall), so am
>> particularly after a sample config file to start from, particularly one with
>> hill contours / gradients /
>> whatever-they-are-really-called-outside-the-confines-of-my-head.
>>
>> Altho' having said that the package that Parveen Arora is putting together
>> looks pretty awesome, so maybe I should hold out for that, even tho' it
>> looks more targeted for Debian than OS X - I guess if push comes to shove I
>> could install Debian in VMware, which I already have on my laptop.
>>
>> By the way townguide looks rather amazing, so adding that to my (rather
>> long) list of things to check out :-)
>>
>> Thanks for the offer of helping generate the configuration file, not sure
>> of the best way to do that tho' as I want something I can start with and
>> hack around with and iterate a lot until it's "right". The primary thing I
>> want is pubs and post boxes available when zoomed out (ideally the same zoom
>> range as footpaths show up on), and if possible the mountain
>> gradients/contours - I've seen a couple of maps "in the wild" that use
>> these, but not sure how possible/straightforward it is for a Mapnik newbie
>> such as myself.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2011, at 10:46, Graham Jones wrote:
>>
>> Adam (changed the title of the thread to keep this one separate),
>> The simplest way to do it is to make overlays that are transparent and you
>> can view over another set of tiles.
>> I have done a few before now - there is one visible at
>> http://maps3.org.uk, which highlights historic things over the normal
>> mapnik rendering.
>> I still have the idea to set up something to make the learning curve
>> easier, because I appreciate that setting up mapnik and all its dependencies
>> is quite daunting - there is something on my osm user page about it
>> (grahamjones).
>>
>> If you want to do it yourself, there are a few different sets of
>> instructions - the osm wiki 'mapnik' page is a good start.  Note that linux
>> is much easier than Windows (or at least there are better instructions!).
>>
>> I have a set of instructions that work for me at
>> http://code.google.com/p/townguide/wiki/InstallationInstructions.
>> (there may be a minor issue with postgresql authentication that I need to
>> fix).
>>
>> Parveen Aurora is currently working on making a simple package that will
>> install and configure everything for you for his Google Summer of Code
>> project, but you will have to give him a few weeks to get something ready
>> for testing (https://github.com/ParveenArora/MeraMap).
>>
>> If you would like to work out what you would like to render (ie which tag
>> combinations), how you would like them drawn (line colour and width, icon
>> image etc.), I can help you turn that into a mapnik configuration file and
>> generate the map for you on my computer.    I think it is better to spend
>> time thinking about the rendering than having to worry about database
>> configuration nuts and bolts.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Graham.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Graham.
>>
>> On 10 June 2011 10:27, Adam Hoyle <adam.lists at dotankstudios.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry in advance - after writing this I've realised I'm possibly heading
>>> off on a tangent (I do that).
>>>
>>> Speaking of the awesomeness of Cycle Map and how that encourages people -
>>> I really want an openwalkingtothepubmap, which would basically be a clone of
>>> the gorgeous cycle map, but with the coloured cycle routes removed in favour
>>> of coloured paths and also pubs visible when quite zoomed out (and prolly
>>> post boxes too, but that is probably particularly niche).
>>>
>>> I'm starting to realise that I might need to roll up my sleeves and do
>>> this myself.
>>>
>>> Every now and then I try to install Mapnik on my Mac, and mostly fail,
>>> but I tried t'other day and it worked, so I'm wondering where the various
>>> styles that are used on OSM are kept (or even if they are actually available
>>> for derivative use) - I'm most keen on cyclemap or something that has
>>> gradients, cos as a walker I'm quite interested in whether I am about to
>>> walk over a massive hill or not.
>>>
>>> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> On 10 Jun 2011, at 09:35, Bob Kerr wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Andy about increasing the number of mappers is essential.
>>> With Cycle map he has increased the interest in the cycling communities.
>>> Getting interest and publicity is very difficult. I can see many other
>>> communities that we could encourage to start helping us, from NHS to golfers
>>> but we have no organised way of doing this at the moment. Using a bot to
>>> replace large sections of data in the UK is going to be counterproductive or
>>> destructive, especially as the UK is now 80% (road name)complete.  However
>>> restricting a bot by area to the size of small villages may help. I believe
>>> we can both encourage people to join us and use the a bot on small areas at
>>> the same time.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> bob
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Andy Allan <gravitystorm at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* SK53_osm at yahoo.co.uk
>>> *Cc:* talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 9 June 2011, 16:45
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] OSM Analysis New Data and bot
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Jerry Clough : SK53 on OSM
>>> <SK53_osm at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> > In order to get  a better level of completeness in the UK what we need
>>> are
>>> > more mappers.
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>>
>>> Everything we do should be focussed on helping get more mappers, or
>>> helping the mappers we have get their jobs done more easily.
>>> Everything that is a direct substitute for having more mappers is, at
>>> best, a distraction from (what I see as) the desired goal. If we have
>>> mappers, and lots of them, then - as we've now demonstrated - we can
>>> get a glorious dataset.
>>>
>>> Note that not everyone here shares the same goals - some people are
>>> focussed on the data, others on the community. It might be worth
>>> examining why we (collectively) have a tendency to discuss the data
>>> all the time and I see very few discussions on community matters.
>>>
>>> I find in most conversations, if the answer is "because we don't have
>>> enough mappers yet" then the solution is not to bypass them with some
>>> form of automation but to get more of them. Unfortunately to most
>>> OSMers, community building seems hard (which it is), and writing bots
>>> or doing imports seems easy (which it's not).
>>>
>>> > A bot is putting short-term gain ahead of our long-term interests.
>>>
>>> Indeed. What's more, all the effort that goes into writing bots,
>>> discussing them, justifying them etc is time that hasn't gone into the
>>> primary goal of recruiting and helping more people to OSM.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Graham Jones
>> Hartlepool, UK.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Graham Jones
> Hartlepool, UK.
>
>
>

-- 
Graham Jones
Hartlepool, UK.
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