[Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign

David Fisher djfisher81 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 19 14:04:28 UTC 2013


Hi Shaun,

I take it you're referring to Ipswich?  In which case, I can sort of see
the logic.  It's not "one-way", it's "no entry", so when the excepting
conditions are satisfied it becomes two-way.  In Croydon's case there's
that "no motor vehicles" sign at one end, with a "no entry" sign at the
other with no excepting conditions -- so presumably the intention is for
the street to be one-way even for cyclists.  (which is odd, given that
there's nowhere else obvious to go coming southbound on a cycle.)

I'm now in contact with the local cycling advocacy group, so will see if I
can get a (more) official position on Croydon in the same way as you have
for Ipswich.

Thanks,

David.



On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:27 PM, Shaun McDonald <shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk>wrote:

>
> On 31 Oct 2012, at 16:02, David Earl <david at frankieandshadow.com> wrote:
>
> > On 31/10/2012 15:29, Andy Robinson wrote:
> >> Shaun McDonald [mailto:shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk] wrote:
> >>> Sent: 31 October 2012 15:21
> >>> To: Matt Williams
> >>> Cc: Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Ambiguous restrictions sign
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 31 Oct 2012, at 14:49, Matt Williams <lists at milliams.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 31 October 2012 14:37, David Fisher <djfisher81 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The pedestrianised main shopping street in Croydon has a sign with
> >>>>> the following wording: "Pedestrian Zone.  No vehicles except cycles
> >>>>> and for loading 6pm-10am."
> >>>>> How would you interpret that?  I see at least 3 possibilities:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (a) Cycles permitted at any time; loading only permitted 6pm-10am
> >>>>> (this is what I guess is the correct one)
> >>>>> (b) Cycles and loading only permitted 6pm-10am (this would also make
> >>>>> sense; i.e. cycling only outside shopping hours)
> >>>>> (c) Restrictions apply 6pm-10am (clearly ludicrous!)
> >>>>> (d) Something else?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm guessing it's meant to be (a), but just thought I'd canvas
> >>>>> opinion before tagging.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think I agree with (a). I would find it a little strange to disallow
> >>>> cycling just during the day (why not just ban it entirely?).
> >>>
> >>> The centre pedestrianised bit of Ipswich has cycling banned from
> 10:30am -
> >>> 4:30pm. It does get pretty busy during that time.
> >>> http://goo.gl/maps/ouha1
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm not sure that's correct? Is it not just banning cyclists from
> cycling
> >> against the traffic flow during this period? The sign at the other end
> >> suggests its open to cyclists at all times in the direction of normal
> flow.
> >
> > (from your corrected link http://goo.gl/maps/SM2y9 )
> >
> > The key thing here is the sign it is underneath. The reference to
> cyclists in the text is superfluous (and presumably not authorised by the
> DfT) because the 'low flying motorbike' sign means "no MOTOR vehicles", and
> a bike isn't a motor vehicle. That's not just pedantry: there is a separate
> sign for banning ALL vehicles, a simple red roundel with nothing inside it.
> There is no restriction on bikes at any time according to that sign.
> >
> > Their traffic engineer needs sending back to sign school.
> >
>
> So some more info on this situation.
>
> The intention was to allow cycling in both directions between the hours of
> 4:30pm and 10:30 am. With vehicles for loading and service access in one
> direction only during those hours. However it's more recently turned out
> that it's not possible to legally sign a road like that.
>
> Unfortunately there are a few cyclists who are spoiling it for everyone
> else, by cycling dangerously during the busy period, thus the probable plan
> is to not allow cycling all the time in terms of signage. (The police are
> happy to allow sensible cycling even if not allowed).
>
> Shaun
>
>
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