[Talk-GB] Complaining about refs on roads again!

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 30 April 2013 19:45, Andy Allan <gravitystorm at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 30 April 2013 19:21, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
> <robert.whittaker+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I would still maintain that it is appropriate to use the ref key for
>> such reference numbers. Internal or not, it's still the primary
>> official reference number for that stretch of road. I would argue that
>> the "problem" with the numbers being displayed on the map is more of a
>> rendering issue.
>
> I heartily disagree.
>
> There are clearly two "types" of road reference numbers used in the
> UK. One type of reference is used publicly on signs, on atlases, and
> people expect to see them. Another type is rarely seen by members of
> the public, and of only very niche interest. They are different and we
> should acknowledge this.

The difference is that "A14" is used as a name as well as being the
reference number for the road. The issue is really that, based on
major roads, renderers and data users are probably assuming that refs
on roads can always be used as de facto names for the roads.

> It's very, very easy for us to say "For highways in the UK, only use
> the ref tag for motorways, A and B roads". It's the principle of least
> surprise - all around the world, people are using ref tags on highways
> to show the reference that members of the public expect to see.

But I hope you'll agree that the reference numbers for more mInor
roads is still useful information to hold in the OSM database. In
which case, please make a proposal for how those numbers should be
tagged, and get a concensus for that. Otherwise we're likely to
continue with an inconsistent mixture of ref, admin_ref, official_ref,
local_ref and probably others too.

> It's only some high level of pedantry that would suggest there's no
> difference between "A14" and "UW2093". Sure, it's possible to claim
> it's a rendering issue, but in reality it's not. It's a
> misinterpretation of what the ref tag, when used on highways, is for.

Equally one could argue that the misinterpretation is by the renderers
and data users. The wiki says that the ref tag is "used for reference
numbers or codes". That fits the bill for the primary reference number
for any road. It's only because of poor assumtions and a lack of
forsight by renderers and data users that we have this problem now.
You're probably right that your solution is more pragmatic, but it
still smacks of tagging for the renderer...

Anyway, we are where we are with this, so if someone comes with an
alternative proposal for tagging those reference numbers on more minor
roads (i.e. a specific key to use), which gains widespread support in
the UK, I'd be happy to go along with that.

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker