[Talk-GB] Using store locator as source

SK53 sk53.osm at gmail.com
Tue Sep 17 08:15:28 UTC 2013


Just a general point about shops. There is a perfectly good OPEN data
source containing address (& postcode centroid as lat/lon) available for
all food outlets covering most UK local authorities.

This is the Food Standards Agency's Food Hygiene Rating
Scheme<http://ratings.food.gov.uk/open-data/en-GB>.
I don't in general use it for armchair mapping (the exceptions being places
I used to know well, where I have used FHRS to verify that a
pub/restaurant/cafe is still in business), but it is very powerful for a)
finding places to survey; and b) adding address data.

It is certainly likely to cover major chains such as : Tesco, Morrison,
Sainsbury's, Waitrose, Asda, Boots, Superdrug, W.H. Smith.

Like most data sources it's not perfect: I've encountered a few omissions
(including the banqueting hall mentioned in an earlier thread) as well as
out-of-date information.

License info on the FHRS site is somewhat opaque, but Open Data gov
provides this search<http://data.gov.uk/data/search?license_id-is-ogl=true&q=food+hygiene>
.

So there is no need to even think about using Store Locator stuff on
proprietary websites.

Jerry


On 17 September 2013 08:38, OpenStreetmap HADW <osmhadw at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 16 September 2013 19:18, David Earl <david at frankieandshadow.com> wrote:
> > On 16/09/2013 17:35, Adam Hoyle wrote:
> >>
> >> On 16 Sep 2013, at 16:14, Andy Allan <gravitystorm at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
>
> > Almost all retail sites will claim blanket copyright in every page of
> their
> > websites. Just to take one at random, I went to http://www.boots.com/ .
> See
> > the bottom of the page, and you'll see the copyright statement.
>
> It would be difficult to find any commercial or large business that
> doesn't.  In this case, Asda do.
>
> >
> > Furthermore, any maps or use of postcode location they use may also be
> > copyright to someone else, like Royal Mail.
>
> Asda certainly look as though they must have used postcode centres, as
> their marker is at the back of the site and so far off the actual
> store that Bing's icon for store is outside the frame!  However, basic
> postcode centre locations are part of the OS OpenData releases.  What
> is still kept under lock and key by the Post Office is the allocation
> of street addresses to postcodes and the, detailed, Walksort(TM) level
> codes used in the bar codes on mail from institutions.
>
> Providing an interface to add a business by postcode might actually be
> a useful way of getting a first cut set of data without risking an
> inexperienced marketing person using copyright mapping data.
>
>
> > copyright to do that, as long as they understand the implications, that
> the
> > specific information referred would be released under the ODbL. I'd have
> > thought most stores would be only too glad for their locations to be
> > published, but because of the blanket copyright claimed, they'd each
> need to
> > be asked.
>
> The best approach would be to encourage them to submit the information
> directly to OSM, so that they go through the standard OSM licence
> grant process.  The problem may be in getting a share out o what may
> be a very small marketing budget for maintaining the store locator.
> Of course, the benefit to them may be that they get detailed mapping
> of the correct geometry of their site out of OSM, at the slight risk
> of occasional vandalism and good intentions gone wrong.  OSM gets the
> risk that they may not really understand the licence, although I fear
> that the latest generation of mappers may have the same problem.
>
> >
> > The caveat is that they may not be in a position to give you permission
> if
> > the data is itself tied up in copyright to someone else - for example if
> it
> > is derived using the Royal Mail postcode to location database. Depending
> who
>
> As noted above, getting postcodes rather than full geo-refs would
> reduce the risk of third party copyright breaches.  In the Asda case,
> the OSM mapping doesn't seem to have used the store locator mapping.
>
> >
> > The kind of stores we're talking about are in sizeable places, and the
> > numbers aren't huge, so doing it on foot is surely perfectly do-able and
>
> Unfortunately, OSM is becoming an armchair exercise.  I don't know if
> the existing car park, at Asda, was armchair mapping, but in some
> areas, any place where two or more cars gather together gets mapped as
> a car park, without any access restrictions.
>
> > quicker and easier than approaching every chain for a complicated
> permission
> > which they may themselves get wrong. Doing it on the ground means you get
> > them all, systematically, in one place too irrespective of size or
> whether
> > they have an online branch finder.
>
> You also get the right information, not what the marketing department
> thought they knew.  I recently mapped a PFI for NHA health centre
> which had both a sketch map and one of the standard online maps
> identifying a building on the wrong side of the service road as the
> centre (it is hosted within a sport centre).
>
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>
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