[Talk-GB] Town v City (again, sorry!)

Tom Hughes tom at compton.nu
Tue Apr 22 12:59:52 UTC 2014

On 22/04/14 13:29, SomeoneElse wrote:

> 1) "place=city" in OSM might or might not not mean the same as "is a
> ceremonial city, as defined in the UK"

There is no "might" about it. The wiki at least is explicit:


"Smaller charter cities should normally be tagged using place=town to 
avoid these places being promoted too highly in gazetteer search results"

That's using US terminology but it's basically the same thing, that you 
shouldn't base place=city on the local legal status.

> 2) We need some way to represent ceremonial city, if it's not to be
> "place=city"

Sure, if you want uk_legal_status=city then go ahead and add that.

> 3) There's also a "subjective local importance" factor (Cambridge >
> Bedford was mentioned)

Agreed. The wiki says largest, but I think a degree of "importance" is 
relevant as well.

> 4) A scheme that coincided with what's done globally would be preferred
> over anything UK specific.

Absolutely, which is why the definition is not tied to the legal 
niceties of specific jurisdictions.

> 5) We need to decide on something and document it.

Well I think it already is documented, just people in the UK are trying 
to ignore the documentation.

> I'd have expected any mass-change of cities and towns in the UK and
> Ireland to at least try and discuss the change beforehand, which didn't
> happened (someone on #osm-ie has already said that the changes to Galway
> and Waterford were not correct according to their understanding).  I may
> be over-paranoid, but the description of the Wolverhampton change above
> as "town (near city)" does suggest that there's a certain amount of "for
> the renderer" going on here too.

Well there is a close correspondence between the agree meaning of city 
as the largest/most important places and what places people would expect 
to show up first on the map so while it may be mapping for the renderer 
it's also in agreement with the documented meaning of the tag.


Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu)

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