[Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import

Fri Aug 1 17:32:19 UTC 2014

Just my tuppence, since I used the Naptan stop data to make a printed map.
Electronic version here: http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/busmap/

My memory is that I corrected a lot of minor positional errors, and the
occasional name/bearing. I had to add in a few stops that weren't in
Naptan. I wouldn't want to lose these changes, but I'd quite like to fill
in stuff from Naptan that has been updated/corrected. Perhaps we need a
viewer that does comparisons both ways, so both sides can "accept changes"
from the other side if they look better.

I created almost all the route relations from scratch (which was painful,
but would probably have been easier if I'd used the german editor). Anyway,
it basically only has to be done once, and needs human review, so I'd
probably recommend doing them by hand, rather than attempting to generate
them automatically from a timetable.

I used "service" to distinguish between city/country/express services.

I put "frequency" on the route relation (ie typical off-peak weekday
per-hour frequency), such as this one:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/143161

If it's less than once per hour I put "journeys" (ie per weekday) on the
route relation. Sometimes I put journeys on stops (as a flag for not
rendering them).

The frequencies can be summed/combined for particular ways, if required. I
had to bodge that a bit for my map, but I'll probably do it properly when
(if) I update it, since Maperitive now has a python capability.

Richard

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Stuart Reynolds <
stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk> wrote:

>  The TNDS data isn’t going to be based on what is already in OSM, if I’ve
> understood you correctly Oliver. Rather, in our bit, we import the GIS,
> route on it using proprietary (to our contractor) routing engines and
> manually adjust where appropriate, and then we can export the track
> coordinates as OSGR into the TNDS data.
>
>
>
> I haven’t looked at the service tags in any detail, so what I’m about to
> say may well be there already. But if we want to represent the complexity
> then we either have to capture the individual departures at a stop or, more
> likely, try and represent the frequency/regularity of a service on a link.
> Then renderers could show dotted/thin lines, or put the service number in
> different colours for infrequent services. Of course, there are plenty of
> issues around that as well!
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> *From:* Shaun McDonald [mailto:shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk]
> *Sent:* 01 August 2014 3:57 PM
> *To:* Oliver Jowett
> *Cc:* Stuart Reynolds; Talk GB
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
>
>
>
> I see it as being better to put the right hints into the OSM data and the
> routing algorithm so that they can be automatically chosen from the TNDS
> data, rather than having the data in OSM, which is hard to represent some
> complexities such as a few journeys go via a school, some are part route,
> etc
>
>
>
> Shaun
>
>
>
> On 1 Aug 2014, at 15:32, Oliver Jowett <oliver.jowett at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>   Right - I was just trying to understand which was the canonical source.
> One of the things I've been wanting to try (but never have the time) is
> repair the OSM bus route relations based on the TNDS schedule info - which
> sounds very much like your track-finding system. But that gets dangerous if
> TNDS is indirectly pulling data from OSM itself..
>
>
>
> Oliver
>
>
>
> On 1 August 2014 14:20, Stuart Reynolds <stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>  Oliver,
>
>
>
> TNDS data (Traveline National Data Set, for other’s benefit - national set
> of bus & coach timetables) does not currently have the route detail - known
> in TransXChange as tracks. This is because up to now there have been issues
> of IPR with OSGR coordinates derived from OS and/or Navteq data.
>
>
>
> Certainly from our point of view - and by “us” I mean the traveline
> regions of South East, London, East Anglia, South West, East Midlands and
> (shortly) West Midlands - we are all now on a merged system using OSM data
> so those problems have gone away. But I still won’t be exporting Tracks
> until TNDS asks me to.
>
>
>
> Even then, it still has the issues of “is this right”. Most of the time it
> is, but we do get some routes which find a shorter path along a back street
> rather than down the main road.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> *From:* Oliver Jowett [mailto:oliver.jowett at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 01 August 2014 1:51 PM
> *To:* Stuart Reynolds
>
>
> *Cc:* Talk GB
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] NaPTAN (stop) import
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1 August 2014 11:17, Stuart Reynolds <stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>   In terms of bus routes, we also compute the most likely route between
> stops, and could use that to update the services on each link. But that is
> a whole different ball game - we have to make sure our data is good
> quality, and I will need to think what to do when a bus turns off halfway
> along a road that is mapped as one line, for example, - and I’m not about
> to get into that for now! Although I would like to, eventually!
>
>
>
> Where does TNDS fit into this?
>
>
>
> Oliver
>
>
>
>
>
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