[Talk-GB] RFC-2 mechanical edit: UK shop names

Stuart Reynolds stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk
Wed Nov 5 08:32:25 UTC 2014

I have to say that this is all getting rather intense. We are talking about one chain of shops! And clearly we aren't going to get an agreement on standardisation.

To be honest I've never quite understood the obsession with mapping individual shops. Fine if it is done everywhere, but it isn't. Shops come and go, and if I was to do this in Southend High Street I'd have to walk up it on a weekly basis at present to capture all the changes. Frankly, I've got better things to do given many missing crossings, footpaths, cycle ways etc that would really enhance the data.

As I read about a million messages ago, the user of the data can find Brantano, or Coral, or whatever, in all its various forms by processing the data. I've found three different ways of mapping bus lanes so far, which to me is more important than one chain of shops. But we live with it, and code it up so that we account for it rather than proposing to change everything wholesale to identical schemas.

Any chance we can just move on from this?


Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Nov 2014, at 07:21, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl<mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:

I'm glad you say you agree Lester, but to me, the words "common default name" imply some level of consensus, not the subjective opinion of an individual mapper. I see issues here which we should not conflate; on the contrary, we should address them in order, as they form a hierarchy.

Firstly, should there be (as I contend) some objective consensus-based normalised value for "names"

Secondly, how does the community work out what that value should be

Thirdly, (how) do we backfit that value into existing data

Fourthly, (how) do we encourage the use consensus value in preference to what "Joe Mapper" might think

As compliance with "rule 4" cannot be ensured, we can apply "rule 3" periodically to tidy things up.

There are people who object to "rule 1", "rule 2" seems to be a war of attrition. The arguments about "rule 3" are polarised into "camps", and "rule 4" is at the whim of tool developers who decide what "assistance" to offer based on their personal preferences and the feelings of the day.

We live in a free society, and OSM is possibly more free than most. But even in a free society, there need to be rules and limits to safeguard the good of the society as a whole. Let us not act out a certain novel which comes to mind, but have a shared idea of what "data quality" means and find the right balance of measures to work together towards that.


On 2014-11-04 23:54, Lester Caine wrote:

On 04/11/14 22:04, Colin Smale wrote:

Hang on a minute... the name tag should contain the most common name, or, as the wiki puts it, the "common default name."

Totally Agree Colin ...
The name tag should not be subjected to a 'mechanical edit' to change
what has been entered by a local mapper, so please vote against this
proposal on principle.

The 'discussion' on Brantano Footwear is a particular element of that
edit which would change what IS on the local signs, "because the second
line is simple is description of the shop", which is what I'm objecting to.

No problem with the other 'documentary' tags, it's just the name tag
which is contentious here.

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