[Talk-GB] RFC Mechanical edit: shop=betting to shop=bookmaker for selected names

Matthijs Melissen info at matthijsmelissen.nl
Fri Oct 24 11:38:54 UTC 2014

Hi Will,

On 24 October 2014 11:42, Will Phillips <wp4587 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm confused by your actions. Yesterday you started the formal process for
> making an uncontroversial change to the tagging of bookmakers, but since
> then you have made a series of considerably more controversial edits with no
> discussion at all. I wish to register my objection to these changes.

As far as I am aware, the bookmaker tagging is more controversial than
the changes I did today and yesterday.  Bookmaker versus betting is a
longstanding controversy, with (until recently) nearly equal tagging
and strong proponents for both sides. Moreover the numbers for the
bookmaker changes are quite large (hundreds on both sides). On the
other hand, the changes I made today and yesterday are shops where
mappers have expressed a strong preference for a particular tagging,
and only involve small numbers (mostly less than 10 shops), so easy to
revert manually.

> You are standardising the tagging for particular brands, removing the
> original judgements made by mappers who looked at them on the ground. I find
> it particularly de-motivating when these mass changes strip meaning from my
> tagging, changing a specific tag to a more general one. I'm not against my
> tagging being changed through discussion, but distinctions should be kept,
> even if moved to a sub-tag (e.g. shop=bed versus shop=furniture
> furniture=bed).

I agree with that. Can you give examples of changes where I stripped
meaning from tags? That should not have happened. I noticed the
shop=bed situation myself, and already concluded myself that it would
be good to carry out this change, but not without advance discussion.

> I have other concerns about these sorts of edits:
> Are you sure all the shops belonging to a chain sell the same thing and
> offer the same services? In my experience this isn't always the case. For
> example, WH Smith at train stations and airports sell a much narrower range
> than their larger high street stores.

I have surveyed 3016 shops myself (no, I'm not only an armchair
mapper), so I think I have a fairly good understanding of what
products shops sell. I might always have made a mistake of course, so
if you spot any, feel free to point them out. I know WHSmith is a
difficult case, so I won't touch it without prior discussion.

> Where you are 'correcting' tagging based just on the name tag, how can you
> be sure its not an administrative office, distribution depot or something
> else other than a shop?

I look at location of course. I only changed high street / retail
centre locations. In other cases, I added OSM notes.

So personally I think I have sufficient checks in place to not
overwrite useful data.

That said, I don't mind reverting some or all of my changes if you
consider them controversial, and discussing them beforehand. If so,
please specify which changes you refer to.

-- Matthijs

More information about the Talk-GB mailing list