[Talk-GB] UK Retail chains

SK53 sk53.osm at gmail.com
Tue Oct 28 15:42:13 UTC 2014

Came across the Ballachulish Co-op and Post Office
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/56.67729/-5.13067> today which
illustrates some of the issues which have been discussed in this thread
rather nicely.

I think that someone has split this into two nodes, ostensibly one for the
PO and one for the shop. The shop tag is however on both, once as a
supermarket, once as a convenience store. Opening hours are provided on the
post office node.

Apart from the basic problem that the shop has been duplicated, there are
some other issues:

   - Outside the shop is probably called The Co-operative Food
   - I doubt if there are any visible signs calling the post office bit is
   named Ballachulish Post Office
   - Technically it is almost certainly a sub-post office (not I think
   usually used in names
   - The distinct opening hours of the shop and the post office have been
   added. This raises how one validates nested opening hours of this kind
   (also applies to hotels, shopping centres etc).

Clearly this would be better mapped with the main Co-op shop (and 14 years
ago it was definitely a convenience store) as an area, with the PO box as a
node in approximately the right location. Opening hours would be needed for
both as I would expect the post office to be closed on Saturday afternoons
at least ( I remember buying ice cream here late on a Saturday 'cos the tea
shops weren't interested in new custom at 16:45). Personally I would not
expect a name on the post office (perhaps an admin_name might work).

The current mapping using two nodes is ambiguous as to the relationship of
the two elements, something which does not happen when overloading
non-colliding tags on a single element.

Remember that the "post office in" situation is merely a nice exemplar of a
more widespread issue. Finding a sensible and pragmatic way of mapping, and
then documenting it, would help in all the other places where this crops up.


On 25 October 2014 20:19, Dan S <danstowell+osm at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2014-10-25 20:14 GMT+01:00 ael <law_ence.dev at ntlworld.com>:
> > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 07:39:49PM +0100, Dan S wrote:
> >> 2014-10-25 17:48 GMT+01:00 ael <law_ence.dev at ntlworld.com>:
> >> >> >I have made a large update to the UK retail chain page:
> >> >> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Retail_Chains
> >> >
> >> > I am not sure that this is on topic here, but I didn't see the Post
> >> > Office there. Presumably it now counts now as a private business,
> >> > although perhaps not quite "retail".
> >> >
> >> > Our local main office has just closed and moved to a shop within a
> >> > shop (W H Smith in this case). A quick wiki search didn't get a hit
> >> > on how to tag this sort of sub shop, although I know, of course, that
> >> > this is a common situation with department stores.
> >> >
> >> > Is there an agreed way to tag this? Just add amenity=post_office
> >> > to the to the same node as the shop tag? Or add a second node? Or
> >> > something else?
> >>
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> I certainly would not add it to the same node. It's only coincidence
> >> that the tag is a different key so it lets you do that - and after all
> >> it may have different name=*, different opening_hours=*, etc. A second
> >
> > That's true. I would have noticed when I tried to do it :-)
> >
> > However two nodes with standard tags don't distinguish "W H Smiths
> > inside Post office" from the inverse. That seems a useful distinction.
> > sub_shop=yes is ugly, but perhaps something along these lines already
> > exists or is needed?
> This may have been discussed heavily elsewhere, I don't know. My own
> opinion is that if you need something to be _inside_ something else,
> there's no point trying to do that just with nodes, since areas are
> perfect for the job!
> Dan
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