[Talk-GB] place=village/town/city

Fri Feb 12 13:36:22 UTC 2016

Leigh-on-sea has a Town Council. And the residents of Leigh (myself included) like to give it an identity that is distinct from Southend-on-sea, which historically it was. But in practice you would be hard pushed to claim that Leigh was a separate town. Administratively, it has been part of the Borough (Town) of Southend-on-sea for many, many years and there are no hard and fast boundaries that show where it starts and ends on at least two sides. So just because it has a Town Council (but not, in this case, a mayor), it doesn’t mean that it _is_ a town.

Personally, I had always regarded Hamlet/Village/Town as being population-based designators.

Regards,
Stuart

------------------------------------
Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia

On 12 Feb 2016, at 13:15, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl<mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:

According to Wikipedia, it is country-dependent. As it is an English word, we should only discuss about its meaning in an English-speaking context. There is no such thing as a hamlet in Germany for example; they have different words with different semantics, which may or may not map onto English concepts.

The common theme indicated by the Wikipedia article is that a hamlet is in some way dependent or subordinate to a larger settlement. For example it may not have its own church. That in itself does not define an absolute cut-off point in terms of population; it is dependent on the settlement's context with respect to its surroundings.

In the UK of course it is a matter of status to be called a City, and there is an unambiguous list of cities. This list can only be changed by the Crown through parliament. The smallest city is St Davids in Wales, with a population of 1841 (2011 figure). Any attempt to retag it in OSM to place=village will probably be reverted within 0.1 nanoseconds....

A smaller incorporated settlement (civil parish) can decide unilaterally to call itself a town. Changes don't happen very often of course, but it is a point of civic pride for the inhabitants as the council becomes a Town Council and they can have a Town Mayor. This is also independent of the population, but the status is carried by the council whose area may include a substantial rural element, which would also become part of the "town". If you ask an inhabitant of that area whether X is a town or a village, they will tell you, and it has nothing to do with population....

In other countries a rule based on population may be appropriate, but in the UK it is definitely a question of status.

//colin

On 2016-02-12 13:39, Paul Berry wrote:

Hi Michael,

Going the other way, what's the cutoff between a hamlet and a village? Population 50? 100? I'd say that with these categories there's some fuzziness so go with what feels right. On the ground experience over armchair mapping wins out here I think (as it does for most things OSM). More complexity: a place that would be a hamlet or village near a town or city can find itself a neighbourhood or suburb over time. Again the distinction can be a fine one.

Also, and a more important point than all the above, welcome!

Regards,
Paul

On 12 February 2016 at 12:04, Tom Hughes <tom at compton.nu<mailto:tom at compton.nu>> wrote:
On 12/02/16 11:51, Ian Caldwell wrote:

On 11 February 2016 at 21:32, Michael Booth <boothym at gmail.com<mailto:boothym at gmail.com>
<mailto:boothym at gmail.com<mailto:boothym at gmail.com>>> wrote:

    So my question is, how are we defining villages, towns and cities?
    Only by population, or do we also take into account their generally
    accepted status (whilst trying to be consistent across the country)?

In England towns will normally have a town council. Villages
will normally have a parish council. Only really a name difference see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_council#England_and_Wales .

Normally is a very strong word... There are many, many towns and villages without any town or parish council.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (tom at compton.nu<mailto:tom at compton.nu>)
http://compton.nu/

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