[Talk-GB] Edits in Wales

Miguel Sevilla-Callejo msevilla00 at gmail.com
Wed Aug 9 22:40:23 UTC 2017

Hello again,

I started to edit around and within Aberystwyth, Wales. Yesterday I did an
edition to fix the bilingual labelling of some streets as I explained
before in this thread but other user (Mike Baggaley) is asking to me to
remove and change a neutral approach for labelling the streets [1].

I understood that this list is the proper place to discuss and to start a
consensus in the way to edit within the UK.

So I would like to translate here why I'm using a neutral approach for the
bilingual tagging in Wales: mainly because I'm following the wiki.

I'll invite Mike Baggaley or whoever thinks I'm doing an inappropriate
editions to consider joint this thread here and argue about.

Just in case, next, I copy and paste my reply to Mike Baggaley in the
changeset discussion where I explained mi position:

"I disagree with you [to not use "Welsh name / English name" for "name"

If you please read the wiki you will read how to tag in multilingual

First, "name" tag could be use as you can see in street sings [1]. You can
check on Mapillary how are labelled [2][3]

Second, "Welsh name / English name" label for "name" tag is recommended for
a neutral or bilingual version in Wales [4].

Moreover, from the legal point of view, in Wales, in general, and in
Ceredigion Council, in particular, Welsh is as important as English [5].
Even Ordnance Survey has labelled some streets of Aberystwyth in both
languages in their maps! [6]

In conclusion, it is not necessary to change my editions because are



[0] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/
[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
[2] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/BVAjyV5Yt6hediIk7Lqv4w
[3] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/j1ngoo9wTxbfXfnMdcEGVA
[4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales "In the
name field, a neutral or a bilingual version can be entered."
[5] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/mwa/2011/1/contents
[6] http://map.ceredigion.gov.uk/connect/?mapcfg=COMMUNITY_AND_LIVING

*Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
Doctor en Geografía

On 27 July 2017 at 14:48, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo <msevilla00 at gmail.com>

> Hi again,
> As far as I understand the wiki, my experience in Spanish bilingual
> situations and the common sense (as you can see in street signals) I'm
> going to change name=* to a neutral way as far as I could because is non
> sense to have only English name in name=* tag (and adding name:en=* if do
> not exist).
> I see (may be SK53 add them) there are name:cy tag in many streets [1] so
> is as easy to edit name=* adding the Welsh name before as you can see in
> the streets, add name:en=* if necessary.
> Cheers
> Miguel
> [1] e.g. way of the photo http://imgur.com/VkxGasm -->
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/152547339
> --
> *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
> Doctor en Geografía
> On 27 July 2017 at 14:29, SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Miguel,
>> I tend to agree with you. However, we have never had a consensus on which
>> approach to use. Perhaps because we have few mappers in Wales and even
>> fewer who are Welsh speakers by preference. Certainly using an English road
>> name in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales is likely to put off Welsh speakers
>> from contributing, so I tend to regard using both names as a
>> quasi-political compromise. It's not easy to parse but will be intelligible
>> to all, and does not require the elaborate explanation about name:en and
>> name:cy.
>> So be prepared for people querying this approach.
>> From a perspective of entering the data it is important to add name:en
>> and name:cy.
>> Ironically I have been using Aber to test a mapnik overlay of Welsh
>> names, so more data would be very useful.
>> Jerry
>> On 27 July 2017 at 14:15, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo <msevilla00 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hello Phil,
>>> Thanks for your reply, great to know someone is editing or/checking
>>> editions around.
>>> Respect the issue about the street names if you follow wiki indications
>>> for multilingual names [1] you could read for Welsh that "It is better to
>>> use *name:en* for English names and *name:cy* for the Welsh name. In
>>> the *name* field, a neutral or a bilingual version can be entered."
>>> [2]. So it's time to proceed in the correct mode.
>>> You can see an example of street sing here: http://imgur.com/VkxGasm
>>> I guess we should follow the neutral bilingual approach for that rather
>>> than to use only Welsh (which in top) or English name.
>>> In Spain we have same regions with this issue and we are use to manage.
>>> Telegram is like WhatsApp, a Instant Messenger platform, initially focus
>>> in mobile [3] and we use in Spain to re-emplace IRC [4] despite we
>>> connected both services through Riot.im [4]
>>> By the way, I'm one of the administrator of the Non-official,
>>> unauthorized OpenStreetMap supergroup on Telegram: @openstreetmaporg [5]
>>> We keep in contact
>>> Cheers
>>> Miguel
>>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Wales
>>> [3] https://telegram.org/
>>> [4] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Teleg
>>> ram_accounts
>>> [5] https://telegram.me/OpenStreetMapOrg
>>> --
>>> *Miguel Sevilla-Callejo*
>>> Doctor en Geografía
>>> On 27 July 2017 at 13:25, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> Hi Miguel,  welcome to Wales or should I say Croisi y Cymru.
>>>> I am based in the Marches on the border so my mapping is regularly both
>>>> sides of the border. I do keep an eye on mid Wales through whodidit as we
>>>> are very sparse on mappers in that area.
>>>> >
>>>> >I'm looking for other contributors in Wales, Ceredigion or even within
>>>> >Aberystwyth to coordinate with them to star editions here.
>>>> >
>>>> >For instance, I found that all street names should be tagged in Welsh
>>>> >and
>>>> >English in the name=* as you can see in the street signals or as I
>>>> >found it
>>>> >must be in the OSM wiki [3]
>>>> I would disagree with that, I prefer to map the top name in name and
>>>> then use name:cy and name:en tags. In my experience that is the norm.
>>>> Experience tells me that is far easier if the name contains a single
>>>> language. In Ceredigion I would expect that to be usually Cymraig.
>>>> >
>>>> >Moreover, I'm taking some street level photos to upload to Mapillary
>>>> >[3]
>>>> >and adding some notes [4] for future contributions.
>>>> >
>>>> >All feedback is welcome, I'm on Telegram too (same user as OSM) so you
>>>> >can
>>>> >contact to me there too.
>>>> I am not sure what telegram is, the UK community hang out on IRC in
>>>> #talk-gb, you are welcome to join us.
>>>> >
>>>> >Cheers & happy mapping
>>>> Have fun,  and certainly visit New Quay (Under Milk Wood), while you
>>>> are in Ceredigion.
>>>> Phil. (trigpoint)
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
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