[Talk-GB] Edits in Wales

Thu Aug 10 13:32:55 UTC 2017

On 10 August 2017 at 13:18, Lester Caine <lester at lsces.co.uk> wrote:

> On 10/08/17 11:15, Miguel Sevilla-Callejo wrote:
> > Hi Lester,
>
> God I hate replying to top posters :(
>

[I do not really understand]

Hello to all of you (British OSM Community?)

> > Have you read the Wiki [1]? Have you see street sing pictures [2][3]?
> That wiki page does not ACTUALLY say 'only map what is visible'
> The tag covering the sign for Queen's Square should have ...
> name=MAES Y FRENHINES QUEEN'S SQ.
>

> > I'm improving the DATA adding a neutral and appropriate "name" tag as
> > well as the "name:en" and "name:cy" tags.
> And I would tag those as
> name:cy=Maes Y Frenhines
> name:en=Queen's Square
>
>
Great! I've just see there is a need to correct this place. No Square is
placed there... I will.

Let's see Stryd Portland / Portland Street
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16281189
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/j1ngoo9wTxbfXfnMdcEGVA
What's wrong there? There is a name, name:en and name:cy tags in an
appropriate way. Two weeks ago it was no name:en or neutral name tags. It
is improving the DATA from my point of view.

> Other translations would probably be based off the English version as I
> don't think there are many other Welsh to xxx dictionaries? So expanding
> the 'SQ.' element is important.
>
>
No comments. I did... sure.

> The problem is that while I search for Queen's Sq Aberystwyth it is
> being found as Queens' Road
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Queen%27s%20Sq%
> 20Aberystwyth#map=18/52.41657/-4.08115
> so local knowledge is needed to explain the signage ...
>

This place is still not edited... as I said. Someone mixed with Queen's
Road... I'll check later.

>
> > I guess that the wiki says is the way to do it, right?
> The wiki does not ACTUALLY say that is right - or wrong - which is the
> problem? Should the case used on the signs be followed, should shorthand
> be expanded to make searching easier.
>

As whatever OSMapper could expect I followed the wiki...

> > Here we are to argue if it is wrong of not but from my point of view
> > it's the right approach because it is the same as in other bilingual
> > places around the World: some places in Spain, Belgium, etc.
> Since it is widely accepted that the wiki is simply guidelines then as I
> said "This is still a bit of a woolly area".

"simply guidelines"? I understood it is our reference.

> What is still accepted is
> that the key structure is English and so the default when nothing is
> defined should be 'English' so putting the english element first can be
> argued as the 'correct' approach, and I would prefer that I can find
> 'Queen's Square' easily which is more difficult when 'name' element is
> randomly ordered.

I absolutely disagree with your English-centric point of view. There is a
huge World outside with people who speaks other languages witch must be
represented as such in the diversity/real OSM spatial database.

Are you pretending to promote English name over Welsh only because you
"prefer that"?

> Added to which other countries have their own wars on
> who's language is more important. So we ended up with all the extra keys
> under 'name' http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name with the
> comment against 'name' being what I would consider a rule and the one I
> described ... except it misses the problem of case.
>
>
Please, came to Wales and have a look of the bilingual situation within
your country.

You could have an idea of how it is going the language issue here following
the legal situation. Let's have a look of Welsh Language (Wales) Measure
2011 (part 1):

" [...] the treatment of the Welsh language no less favourably than the
English language;"

I expect the same for my favourite spatial and free data base...

Regards

Miguel

> < trim out of place stuff and sig should never be quoted! >
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -----------------------------
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