[Talk-GB] PRoW changes

Adam Snape adam.c.snape at gmail.com
Wed May 31 11:30:34 UTC 2017

Hi again,

Very much appreciate the effort being made on improving our coverage of
Rights of Way. It is a worthwhile area for OSMUK to look at.

Here are some further thoughts:

1., Dave refers to copies of Definitive Map Modification Orders (DMMOs) on
council websites. They are obliged to publish a register of DMMO
applications on their websites:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/2461/regulation/2/made Whilst these
are a great source of information their use is limited for OSM purposes
because an application to change a map is just that, an application. It may
or may not be successful (see also point 4).

2. The Orders are paper based (usually scanned for uploading), not GIS
files which could be imported straight into OSM.

3. Many, many counties have yet to release ROW information under the
OSM-compatible Open Government Licence (thank you Robert for clarifying
this for me). Very few have released the accompanying Definitive
Statements. I suggest that acquiring nationwide availability of at least
the Definitive Maps (and preferably the statements where they exist in a
digital form) is a much more urgent priority than the relatively small
proportion of paths that have been subject to recent changes for which we
do not yet have updated shape files.

4. If we do end up receiving copies of Orders, like the Ramblers, PNFS,
CTC, BHS  et al it is important that whoever deals with it should
understand the process and that we should not be altering our mapping for
everything we receive. For example, just making the DMMO does not change
the definitive map. There is a period for objections to be received in
response to the Order and possible referral to the Secretary of State. The
final stage is for an order to be confirmed. It is ony this final stage
which actually changes the definitive line or status of the path. There may
be many years (not uncommonly a decade or more) between the DMMO
application, the making of the Order, and its confirmation.

5. Finally, I'd be wary of 'armchair mapping' recent changes without a
ground survey. The advantage of being up to date ceases to be a benefit
when changes have not yet been effected on the ground.

Hope that helps.

Kind regards,


On 30 May 2017 at 14:13, Adam Snape <adam.c.snape at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> One thing that springs to mind is that these organisations receive orders
> as they are statutory consultees who may wish to object to the order. It
> isn't just to keep these organisations up to date. I suspect a request by
> osm to be notified of changes just to keep might get the response that
> orders are already available to the public.
> It seems what we're really asking for is an equivalent of councils'
> obligation to send Ordnance Survey notification of confirmed changes rather
> than their obligation to notify statutory consultees throughout the DMMO
> process.
> Adam
> On 29 May 2017 12:04 p.m., "Brian Prangle" <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There's been a suggestion that OSMUK lobbies  for the statutory right to
>> receive copies of the legal orders which change Public Rights of Way as it
>> can be slow for any official changes to make their way onto the Definitive
>> Map and then be picked up by mappers. There is already legislation that
>> allows various organisations the right to receive copies of the legal
>> orders that effect changes to Public Rights of Way. The list is contained
>> in Schedule 6 of the Wildlife and Countryside (Definitive Maps and
>> Statements) Regulations 1993: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/
>> uksi/1993/12/schedule/6/made
>> These are:
>> Auto-Cycle Union
>> British Horse Society
>> Byways and Bridleways Trust, Open Spaces Society
>> Ramblers Association
>> British Driving Society
>> Cyclists Touring Club
>> Peak and Northern Footpaths Society
>> Chiltern Society
>> Welsh Trail Riders' Association
>> The Board has discussed this and agreed we should do it. I've volunteered
>> to lead this activity.  We think that we would need to convince the
>> relevant Secretary of State that it was a good idea, and get them to
>> amend/re-issue the Statutory Instrument linked above that includes the
>> list. From the introductory text, it looks like it's jointly the
>> Secretaries of State for the Environment and Wales.
>> My thinking on how we should approach this is first to contact each of
>> the organisations who are already on the list and ask
>>    1. Were they added at the time the legislation was passed or
>>    subsequently?
>>    2. If subsequently, do they know the procedure?
>>    3. How is the data provided to them?
>>    4. What licence terms does it have?
>>    5.  If it's open data would they be willing to share it with us until
>>    we get on the list?
>> If anybody has any knowledge or experience of this legislation or any
>> contacts at these organisations or any other  ideas on how to approach
>> this campaign we'd love to know either here or on the OSMUK Loomio
>> <https://www.loomio.org/g/M3fz1PkQ/openstreetmap-uk> discussion site.
>> Regards
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
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